The Controversial Cut

To cut or not to cut, that is the question….

Well actually not much of a question, more an academic debate because Marko has decided that Adam will be circumcised, and I am letting him make the decision.  He is in charge on penises in our house. 

However I know that this is an issue not without an enormous amount of controversy and very strong feelings from both sides.

If I had to make the decision, I am not sure which way I would go.  I hate the thought of my tiny little baby having to go through pain, yet……I do want him to look like Dad, Grandpa etc. 

I know the current thinking around this issue.  That is not medically necessary, that ‘looking like Dad’ is for some people, not a good enough reason.  That some people consider it mutilation etc.

What are your thoughts?  I want Marko to read them too.

Remember:  Respect each other’s views, please.  And also, not too many horror stories of someone’s aunt’s cousin’s brother’s child with whom the knife slipped and the penis was cut off.  I want to know what you did, and why.

Edited to say:  Our son was born January 07, 2005.  based on all of what you’ve said, we decided not to circumcise him.

Comments

[Lurker]

I'm just a lurker, but I wanted to comment on this.

First, I would NEVER let my husband be the SOLE decider in ANYTHING. I have an opinion, too, and I deserve to speak up.

Second, I have two intact boys and am pregnant with our third child now. I will not circ if it is a boy. It is an unnecessary and painful surgery. To give your child a cosmetic surgery just so he can look like dad seems so very silly to me.

Third, it is MUCH easier to clean an intact penis than a circumcised penis. As infants, the intact penis is just wiped, like you would any other part of the body. It does not retract until later in life, usually around 4 - sometimes in puberty - but then the child can learn to retract it himself and clean it. My son is 5 and does this on his own. A circumcised infant requires more care and attention in the genital area. It has to be kept from getting infected, etc.

[Rebecca]

We had Aaron circumcised. Not because of religious reasons, not because I wanted him to look like daddy, but because of the hygiene issues. Men who aren't circ'ed can get very bad infections under the foreskin if they dont practice perfect penile hygiene. Most everyone with a 5 year old boy will tell you that hygiene is the furthest thing from their minds. My brother had just such an infection at 8 years old, and ended up having to be circ'ed after the infection cleared up. There is also evidence that uncirc'ed men have a higher chance for penile cancer, STD's, and male yeast infections.

It was very quick and mostly painless, I attended the circumcision, it lasted 5 minutes at most and Aaron had numbing meds beforehand, so he only flinched a bit and cried for a second. There wasnt much bleeding and the ring fell off a week later. I dont regret it for a second.

I hope your decision is an easy one to make,and you feel comfortable with whatever you choose to do.

[Boulder]

This decision will be soley my husband's should the need arise. I figure he is the only one who really knows what the implications are for identity with dad, locker room realities, interaction with women, and what later in life, whether it is 6mos, 2 years, or 30 the "adjustment" experience might mean physically & psychologically.

No way am I going to impose my thoughts in an area that I have no expertise. I can do all the research in the world, but I haven't lived the experience.

Marko's arena totally, IMHO.

[Lissie]

Hi Tertia - since you asked... :)

When we found out we were expecting a boy, I left the decision up to DH, who is circ'd. Since I don't have a penis, I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other. He felt VERY STRONGLY that he did not want DS cut- mainly for the issue that without the protective foreskin, apparently you lose sensation. Given that we have no cultural or religious reasons to do it, we didn't see the point of subjecting him to something that is not medically necessary. I have never understood the "looking like daddy's bits" argument, and certainly don't find it compelling for something that is not recommended. I am sure DS will see DH's bits and may have questions, and we'll just tell him the answer! If we have another boy, we won't cut him either. Yeah, we'll have to teach him how to keep it clean (and we'll have to learn ourselves!), but really, it's all part of baby care anyway. JMO, and I certainly don't criticize others for making a different decision.

[Sarah]

One thing to make sure to get REALLY comfortable with is pulling back the foresking and cleaning everytime you diaper. Also teaching little adam to clean it every day. My nephew is considering getting circumsised because his foreskin is adhereing to the tip of his penis because of bad hygiene.

Also, once the pen*s is, uh, fully, ya know, you can't tell the differance.

Sarah

[KathyH]

As a NICU and peds nurse I've seen hundreds of circs done. If I were having a boy (30w1d with a girl) I'd have him circ'd. I'd want him to have a penile nerve block beforehand, a plastibell and not a gomco clamp, and the most experienced circ practitioner I know to do it (who happens to be a peds surgery nurse practitioner), not just the OB resident du jour.

[KellyGreenT]

Even though we had STRONGLY preferred not to have Travis cirumcised, his birthmother signed the release while she was still his legal guardian so our hands were tied. Travis was in a tremendous amout of pain for a few days following the procedure. He cried and screamed while I took care of his penis. Every signle time he peed, he freaked out. I can only imagine how badly it hurt... ever cut yourself with a razor in the shower and have the water hit the cut, its hurts like a MOTHERFUCKER! Now, imagine piss in a raw cut... OUCH!

The first day it bled alot it took a few weeks for it to heal properly. Infact, he actually had a minor infection from the circumcision that required antibiotic.

Here is a great resource www.cirp.org/pages/parents/FAQ/

[sweetisu]

Such a heated debate. It's a very personal decision for sure, as many have stated.

However, I just wanted to share that I used to date a guy who was *huge*. I mean, gigantic. Anyway, he was uncircumsized and it was NOT pretty and NOT functional. When he was erect, the foreskin prevented the 'head' to come out totally and therefore couldn't do the in/out motions "properly"..... He was a virgin and I didn't worry about STD--stupid in the aftermath but I just didn't. Anyway, the only way we were able to get it on was for him to wear a condom. That seemed to relieve the "friction". I am VERY sure he will have to be circumsized later if he wants to have children... I mean, how do you do the deed free-of-raincoat when you can move in/out smoothly?! And if you are married, you wouldn't really want to wear the raincoat. All I gotta say is, OUCH, for any one cir' it at a later age.

[Tammy]

My son is 6 1/2 and uncircumcised. This was an issue that caused quite a bit of grief within the family after he was born because my in-laws were against leaving him natural. The bottom line for me was the fact that he was born with it - why remove it? Also, the idea of someone strapping down my newborn and cutting him was beyond my comprehension. We have had no problems and no questions as to why he looks different than dad and he sees dad's willy a lot since we are a very open family about nudity and he still showers with us frequently. And, I think it looks cute all covered up and if a girl doesn't want to have sex with him because he looks "weird" to her, then he is better off without her.

[sweetisu]

"I mean, how do you do the deed free-of-raincoat when you can move in/out smoothly?!"

That should read CAN'T move in/out smoothly..

And sorry for the all italicize. Forgot to close it after 'gigantic'.

[Tammy]

Oh, about the earlier comment about cleaning the penis during diaper changes - DO NOT PULL BACK THE FORESKIN!! It should not be separated at any time during infancy since it is actually bonded to the penis and pulling it back too soon can cause problems because it can tear on the inside. It will separate on its own - my son's started to separate around the age of four and he knows how to clean it himself now.

[Helena Handbasket]

I've decided not to circumcise if I ever have a boy because:
1) I've dated both circumcised and uncircumcised men. None of the men, circumcised or uncircumcised, were unhappy with their parents' decision. (Both of the uncircumcised men I dated expressed relief at being left intact). So I figure, if it doesn't make a difference to the male once he's an adult, why put an infant through the pain? I should add that I don't buy the hygiene argument.
2) my (circumcised) husband has no strong opinion either way (if he did want to circumcise, I would put up a bit of a fight, but I would capitulate if necessary. I'm not an anti-circumcision crusader.
3) I worked as a midwives' assistant and had to attend circumcisions (performed by doctors; I don't think midwives perform them). After seeing infants' reactions (total crying freakout to shock-like withdrawal), I wouldn't want to inflict that kind of pain on my child. (But would if necessary to preserve marital harmony. Plenty of boys are circumcised and seem to end up emotionally intact).

[MistyD]

When I was pregnant with my first son my husband had no opinion. I decided to do it to 'look like dad' and because I thought it'd be hard to clean an intact penis. No research at all. I refused to watch a video to prepare me for the procedure, I just wanted it done and over with. Even though they used a numbing shot I could hear him scream from across the ward. When we took him home he would hold his pee as long as he could then scream bloody murder as the urine hit his open wound. Yes, he had plenty of vaseline and gauze on. Easy to clean, indeed.

It was right there that we first started feeling a pang that we had done the wrong thing. At nine months old we learned that he had developed adhesions, where the little bit of remaning skin tries to reattach to the glans. The doc ripped them off and said we had to keep ripping them. He screamed and screamed at every diaper change for a week until that healed. Soon after we got a new doc who said to leave that alone, they would be fine in time. (He was right.)

By this time I had learned that not every one in the world circed. Infact, 80% of the men in the world are intact, I had no idea. I asked John what he thought about not circing another son, did it matter that the baby not look like him? He said, "well actually Jake doesn't look like me at all, he's got your dark eyes and hair. I wouldn't make Jake or other sons dye their hair or wear colored contacts. I wouldn't insist they get a nose job or try to make them have a gap in their teeth like mine.....nah, I don't care." Love that man.

During Kai's first trimester I had a lot of bleeding, etc. and thought I wsa losing him several times. It was extremely rough on me as it is any any mom. A few days after his birth my mom watched me change his diaper and said, "Misty! Are you going to have this baby circumcised? You know Jake is!!!" I thought of trying to explain all my reasons but all that popped into my head is the absolute terror I felt as Kai's twin bled out of me and he bravely hung on. What must that have been like for him? No, Kai was hard fought for and I wasn't going to hurt him. I just said NO with tears in my eyes.

Later she told me that when my brother was circed he lost a ton of blood and the doctor had a hard time stopping the bleeding. The doctor was very experienced but it really rattled her and she was crying when telling my parents what happened. He had to stay in the hospital longer. My brother will never circ a son.

So it turns out that Kai's foreskin is not hard to clean at all. You wipe it down like a finger and no feces ever gets on the head of his penis. That was really hard with Jake, poop got under the head all the time and in the small folds. Our doctor agrees with the AAP position of never forcibly retracting a foreskin, whenever it does retract on it's own we'll show Kai how to pull it back and rinse with water. I think he'll be able to grasp the idea.

The thing that gnaws at me is that we don't know for sure what other complications Jake might have. He won't know until adulthood if the circ is too tight and hurts when...um...aroused. There are other potential problems too, so none of these boys who "had no problems at all" really know for sure yet if that's true.

Both of you please watch the video! As I said earlier, it may not make you change your minds but then at least you'd be prepared for the suregery.

I don't think the one with the penis gets to decide. Well, actually I guess I do. It's Adam's penis so I think he should be the only one to make that decision. As far as parental decision I think both parents have an obligation to research it with an open mind.

[Shelly]

3 of my boys have been cut. They have hypospadius penis, so it needed to be corrected. My youngest boy is not and will not. My husband wants it done, but he is 2 now and why?! I watched my boys suffer and NO WAY was he. However, we are not totally sure if he doesn't have the hypospadius deal or not.

Good luck!

[katie e.]

just want to end the italics; hopefully this will work

[Courtney]

My son, who was born at 36 weeks, was circumcised. No problem with breastfeeding, though we did have to wait a couple of days because of some size/breathing issues. It was most definitely my choice, and selfishly enough, it was made for purely aesthetic reasons. Point blank -- I don't like how an uncircumcised penis looks, and I didn't want him to be teased for not being circ'd. My husband, who is circ'd, was against it, citing all of the *mutilation* websites, etc. Coincidentally, my FIL is NOT circ'd. The *looking like daddy* thing didn't have much impact on my DH, but looking like his peers did. I haven't regretted my decision, though I will caution you that it looks pretty bad for the first week (think fire engine red.) I am told by the nurse who witnessed it that my son cried when he was strapped down, but didn't peep when cut.

The medical debates regarding pros and cons were not at all compelling to me. Yes, it could be unnecessary. And so is ear piercing, buying Dora's Talking House, and letting your kids sleep in your bed. We do what we feel, as parents, comfortable with. I knew for me (as my best friend's 3 sons are NOT circ'd) that I would not be happy if I didn't circumcise my sons. Could be a geographic thing, but it is what we are used to.

My dad, who was a twin, was too small at birth to be circ'd safely, so he was circ'd at six years old, when they took his tonsils out!!! OUCH! My mom's BF had to be circ'd at age 60 due to health reasons. DOUBLE OUCH.

[Karen]

Paraphrasing my Dad, who is a [retired] pediatrician:

Circumcision is not recommended, but there is not a high level of concern. If there is a religious reason, circumcision is not dangerous and should be performed. If Dad feels strongly about it, do the circumcision.

[Caitlin]

If we have a boy we've decided not to circumcise. I generally left it up to DH, but would be inclined not to do it. In addition to the "not medically necessary" concerns, we both felt like it would be a bother as it would be another issue to deal with in the first couple of weeks (getting it done, taking care of the wound, another trip to the md to make sure it's ok) and with twins we're certainly going to be in over our heads as it is.

[Cricket]

Forgive - I'm not reading the other comments, preferring to go straight to my own.

I let my ex make the decision and I have regreted ever since. I cried when my son was taken away. I cried when I saw the rude, weepy, red, horrible result.

A lot of what I based my opinion on was in preservation of my son's future sexual function. You're chopping off a mighty lot of nerves down there and you're making a dried up head create a measure of callous for not being protected where it belongs.

I'd be pissed if my protecting outer lips were chopped off and let my inner lips get dry and chafed in the wind. No difference in circumstance to me.

[Tricia G]

My dad and uncle weren't circ'd. At ages 70 and 74 they each had to get circ'd due to cancer of the penis. Therefore, all little boys in our families will be circ'd!

[sim]

I think the hygiene/cancer arguments are specious. There are lots of other hygiene-requiring bits of the body we don't routinely dispose of - wouldn't it be easier if we just yanked baby teeth as soon as they appear? After all, they'll get another set later. The evidence on cancer risk is slim at best; you'd get much better cancer protection from preventative mastectomies for women, but I don't see that becoming routine. The fact is, the foreskin is a normal and useful part of the body; without it, you lose not only the nerves contained in the foreskin itself, but you also force the delicate skin on the head of the penis to become dry and calloused, which is NOT how it was designed to be. I've seen cut and uncut, both in the baby-minding and man-romancing contexts, and unless there's a specific medical need for it (and nearly all cases of phimosis can be successfully treated without circumcision), I will not be cutting my boys. I certainly don't think circ is child abuse, I just think it's unnecessary.
And yeah, back to the superficial reasons - sure, there are women who think natural penii are ugly. There are also women like myself and many of my friends (btw, we're all US-raised) who think the cut ones look weird. Either way, this shouldn't be why you make the decision - who wants their son dating a woman (or man, really) so shallow she cares more about a foreskin or lack thereof than the man himself?

[karla]

I had both my boys circumcised. The hospital used the numbing cream Kim mentioned above and neither seemed the worse for wear. I was a little nervous about having to care for the circumcision since as the Dr. said it is technically a wound, but it was worth it to me to make it easier for them to clean and if it makes them more comfortable in the locker room or wherever I am all for it. For the record, I did not come to the decision to circumcise lightly. I did research and questioned Dr.s until they were sick of me. I decided to go through with it only when I was sure it would be a procedure that would not cause a whole lot of pain or traumatise them overmuch. If I had felt the amount of pain outweighed the benefits I would not have put them through it.

[Krissy]

Our boy is uncirced.

Without a compelling relgious reason to do it, we don't understand why a person would cut a part off their son's body.

The notion that uncircumcised men are more prone to misery and infection is an old wives' tale. I've never been able to find an actual study that proves it.

In addition, less than 50% of American boys are being circed, so the "look like your peers" thing is moot.

Our doctors were so relieved that we weren't circing and all seven perinatologists gave us lectures on how angry parents who circ make them. And this was not a granola no-intervention practice. This was high intervention.

I couldn't live with hurting my baby like that. Some people need that area taken off later in life. Some people need their tonsils out later in life. That doesn't mean that I'm going to let someone automatically take out Charlie's tonsils in case they might be trouble later. Particularly not the OB.

For us, it was a no-brainer.

[Ameliasmama2000]

As it turned out I had a girl so I didn't have to decide, but I'm now trying for #2 and ahve decided NOT to circumsise if I am lucky enough to have a boy.

Mainly I don't believe there is any reason (other than social pressure to do it) and because no pain relief is offered. I know two baby boys born in the past few years who have had issues with their foreskin adhering to the penis because they were fat babies. Both will likely require some corrective surgery in a few years - no fun.

IF I decided to go ahead and do it I'd use a Mohel (eventhough I'm not Jewish) because the best looking circumsisions I've seen are on Jewish men, LOL!

[MOT]

I agree with Cricket and the non circumcise-ers. My twin boys are not cut, their father is - he's American, my family, being European (Brit and Italian) are not circumcised.

Looking like Dad? Lame reason. Would you dye his hair black and put in brown conteact lenses if he were blue eyed and blond?

Cleaner? Lame reason #2. Girls get white stuff (smegma) in labial fold all the time. So are we dirty? No. Should we have our labis removed at birth? No. Do you need to rinse if off in the shower? Yes. Can a boy retract his forskin and rinse it clean? Yes.

Are you Jewish and need to circumcise for faith purposes? If so, then do it. If not - then don't.

I may have married a circumcised boy, but I know from asking a lot of questions sex with a foreskin is better for the guy. Don't mess with what little pleasure we get in the world by slicing a chunk off the equivalent of your son's clitoris. JMHO.

I didn't read the other comments, I hope it didn't offend anyone.

[Pazel]

I'm struggling. I'm due in early April with a son (sounds strange, my having a son). I'd always assumed we would, but doing is harder when it will be real.

My husband's good friend had it done at 18 before entering the Air Force. He had taken a lot of locker room ribbing growing up and wanted to start new. The procedure was very tough at that age. When he had his son some 10 years later, he had his son done the day after birth. He said that they put on an antiseptic and gave the baby the binky (pacifier), and he slept through the procedure.

My friend had her son done. I remember the after care consisted mostly of putting on the antiseptic pain-relieving cream at every diaper change so much that it looked like a soft-serve ice cream cone. This was to prevent pain, infection, and sticking to the diaper or surrounding skin. She really struggled for days on whether to have it done, but eventually did and doesn't regret it.

In my house, our daughter has seen us naked many many times in the first 3 years. Our parts do not look the same (hers being smooth and mine a jungle), but she seems more concerned with the difference in the size of our breasts.

Mr Pazel wants our son cut so they will be the same, and also because nearly all the guys he played sports with growing up were the same. I have some months to decide, and I'll need it.

HBIJ to you! Looking good.

[AyEnDeeAreEeAyAitch]

without having read any of the other comments.... Our opinion was that if we had a boy he would for sure be circumsized so he would look like my husband. I was also thinking of if we had a son it would be better for his future wife. In my opinion circumsized penises are better looking, cleaner and all around a good thing.

[Expat]

I'm intrigued that almost all of the somments refer to circumcision soon after birth.

I thought the rule was to wait until six months when they can be properly anaethetised?

[sagewinna]

You can't undo a circumcision.

My 11 year old is intact, even though his dad and step-dad are not. He's never asked why they look different because they look different anyhow! If he wants it done later, he can have it done. If we'd have circ'ed him and he did not want it done, well, it'd be too late for that, wouldn't it? To do it because some day he might have a problem doesn't make much sense to me, he might need his tonsils out later but you aren't going to have it done at birth just in case, to spare him the pain later...

The head of the penis is supposed to stay moist, like the eyeball. The foreskin protects it. Take away the foreskin and you get keritonized (spelling is bad I think) skin that has less sensativity, and more need for artificial lubrication during sex. My son has never needed lessons on cleaning, he just soaks it in the bath with the rest of him.

Just wanted to tell you that I am so very, very happy you have made it thus far! You have been in my prayers since I first started reading about you on TLOL boards, and am just thrilled for you.

[Expat]

Here we go, found it

"The Australasian Association of Paediatric Surgeons has informed the College that it is its view that routine male circumcision should not be performed prior to the age of 6 months."

[d]

responding straight from your post and my heart. i have a 6-yr old boy and he is not circ'd, though i am jewish and it caused some sadness to my father and some difficult decision making with my husband.

my feelings were pretty clear to me - the child is born, his body is formed, the foreskin has a purpose, just as our other body parts do. there was no reason remotely compelling enough for me personally to consider cutting off part of his beautiful perfect little body, none whatsoever.

little boy penis's look nothing like grown man penis's, circumcision has no compelling medical reason behind it - here in the u.s.a. the main pediatrics association recommends against it, and there are plenty of uncirc'd other boys for him to "look like".

now that my son old enough to play with it, and old enough for the foreskin to retract, my husband has started to joke about being jealous of that foreskin - it sure seems like a lot of fun to play with!! and, as with most everything in life, my sos noticed that some penis's look different from others, and we've explained in a respectful way that some have the foreskin (like his) and some don't.

no regrets, and good luck with this.

[victoria]

My friend, a family physician, circumcised none of her three sons and opposes it for her patients. She views circumcision as a backward, ignorant thing to do that marks people as ill-educated and lower-class. (Yes, really, that's her view.) She thinks it's barbaric, irrational, and cruel to perform cosmetic surgery on an infant. This view is the prevailing trend among the physicians she works with. If there is a similar trend among well-educated people where your son will grow up, your son might be at a little bit of a disadvantage later in life if he's circumcised. And, look at it this way: if he decides that he wants to be circumcised, later in life, he can choose to have it done. Whereas if you do it to him in infancy, he's deprived of all choice in the matter.

[anon]

Just one thought - have you ever tried to give a blow job to an uncircumcised penis? I would think it would save him some embarassment and hassle to have it circumsiced. Also, isn't it cleaner?

[Karen C.]

I have an 8 year old son and had to face this decision when he was born. My husband is circumsized as is all his family and the men in my family.

However, we immediately decided not to circumsize. Unless there was an obvious medical condition present, we saw no need. The pain and the removal of sensitive nerve-ending filled tissue was wrong to both of us. We didn't want to deprive him of potential sexual pleasures later in life. I felt "who were we to make those kind of choices for him?"

It could always be done later if a problem arose or if he wanted it done himself. He was born with it, there must be a reason for it.

Having changed diapers of several circumsized boys, and then having my own, uncircumsized, I can't say it's any cleaner or easier. A bath will take care of any lingering germs you might have left behind at that diaper change.

Good luck on your sweeties!!

[Christine]

We wont have a son for another two months, but we will not be circumcising. My husband was kind of apathetic about the whole thing, but he voted for it. I read and read and, through a combination of not wanting to see my baby in pain, not wanting to cut off 60% of his erogenous tissue, the risk of mistakes/complications etc. I overuled my husband. He admitted that he hasn't seen dad's hooha or grandpa's possibly ever (at least not that he hasn't competely blocked from his memory) so that argument didn't hold much water with us. His mom brought up the whole "slight increase risk of penile cancer thing", but we decided that we wouldn't cut off the breasts of any daughters we may have to reduce breast cancer risk, so that was out too.
Like you said, its a toughy.

[Egg Donor]

I don't have any children, but speaking from a female perspective I have to say I prefer a circumsized penis and if I had the choice to make, I would circumcise my son.

Amy V mentions that some parents don't know how to properly clean an uncircumcized one. Well a lot of males don't either. Adult men come in with infections and they are *adults*. Imagine the state of that thing on a 12-year-old boy who refuses to shower (as they often do). I've been witness to very smart college males who have NASTY things going on down there. It's just gross.

From the participant perspective, I don't think I would even have sex with a man with an uncircumcized penis. It looks weird and I would constantly be wondering whether or not he takes care of this thing.

As for the pain issue, there are a lot of prinful things done to little children - like immunizations for one. This issue was one we would frequently discuss in High School and none of my male friends had even the slightest recollection of their circumcisions. I know it must be unplesant for moms and dads to see their kids in pain, but if this is done as an infant, the child is not going to remember any more then he will remember that some nurse was poorly trained at inserting that IV in his arm in the PICU.

Just as a side note (because I saw some mention above), it is also a compeltely different issue from female circumcision, since men are able to experience sexual pleasure after the procedure while women are not (and the POINT of female circumcision is to take that pleasure away).

So my kudos to Marko. :)

[Christine]

Oh, and I have given a blow job to a guy with an uncircumsized penis. Not gross at all. Shameful to admit on the internet, perhaps, but not nasty in the least.

[sim]

If you care about looking like everyone else, I'd hesitate to circ, frankly - the current trend is in favor of *not* cutting.

[Courtney]

I disagree with the comment above. My sister, a Yale and Harvard educated pediatrician who worked at the top pediatric hospitals in the United States does not share her view on circumcision. Educated people (even highly educated ones such as herself), do circumcize and accept it as a reasonable choice among parents. To say otherwise is quite insulting. To say the decision to circumcize has to do with education is ignorant.

[anon]

From one anon to another - I gave a blowjob to my favorite uncut penis last night. It was lovely as always, and while my memory of cut penises is starting to get hazy, I recall their being a lot more work. However, this isn't really relevant to the decision - I wouldn't love my fiance less and not want to pleasure him had his parents decided for a circ.

[patricia]

If you get this far down, here is our story.

I said the same thing to my husband. "You decide, I don't have a penis and you do." I didn't really want him to do it, but I left it completely up to him, because I knew our child would not be permanently damaged if he was circumsized.

My husband anquished over this decision. He asked everyone he knew. He did internet searches. He found that the vast majority of Europeans don't do it. He asked his Irish friend about the "cleaning" issue. His friend told him it was like washing his armpits, that it had never been an issue.

We live in a liberal city, at least 35% of boys are not circumsized now, so my son would not be a "freak." (That is one pet peeve I have, that women in the states think that circumsized is "more attractive." Since that is all most of them has ever seen, doesn't it occur to them that it is what they are USED to? Baby girls born in this country after about 1995 will have a whole different view on penises, I guarantee it.)

Anyways, FINALLY my husband decides not to circumsize. But when his parents come to the hospital and his mom goes to change our son's diaper, my husband sheepishly says, "you know, we are not going to circumsize..." His mother responds, "Well, he's not circumsized either" and she points to my father-in-law. My husband's jaw dropped. He had no idea his dad was uncircumsized.

I love that story because, for my husband, it entirely proved the lack of need for the boy to "look like" the father. My son looks enough like his father in all the other ways. Noone is comparing their penises.

Good luck.

[lilmisstypo]

I have been lurking for so long and only post when i see something that applys... I have 2 boys now 5 and 7 and both were circ. I had my 1st one done with the plastibell ( like in this comment
**** I know that with the plastibel (I think that's what it is) there aren't any incisions and that it just falls off after a few days, but it still looked really sore for the poor babe.
Posted by: Dianna ******
And it was a mess they didnt tighten it enough and it only circued half of it and it was nasty .. but all is fine now and no scarring .. My second son was just cut like most are ... it went find ... no problem ... my dr was very upset that i didnt pull the inccision back to keep it back though and it would make him cry everytime .. but i choose not to pull it back .. and it was fine .... just my O but i had mine done because it was normal to me and was not much for my earlier experience with an uncir man .. but they all arnt like that i bet ..... YOu will do just fine what ever you do ..... Great job on bakin these little muffins .... keep up the good cookin .... cant wait to hear about the birth .... and see some awsome pictures ... * back to my normal reading

[RS]

I am a man, and here is my perspective:

I have short back and sides... can't say it ever affected me when they did the cut, but I sure am glad I do not have to contend with possible cheeze issues. My glorious orb is always available for inspection by my wife and I. A little smiley face always greets us in the morning.

I'm with Marko on this.

[d]

and, two more things now that i've read through the other comments and because i just can't shut up:

first, it is absolutely wrong that you need to retract the foreskin when changing diapers. a baby's foreskin is adhered to the penis for several years and you would cause real damage by doing this. (in fact, it's the first reason for pain relief for circ.)

second, i am truly baffled by the argument to circ based on knowing a 10 or 30 or 50 or 70 year old man who has had to get it done at that later age. i have known a lot of women that had to get hysterectomy's but don't think we should remove the uterus at birth. my dad along with millions of other men has had to have his prostate removed (at age 60), but that's not a reason to remove it at birth. doesn't add up for me at all.

i think it really comes down to upbringing and what you're used to, which therefore seems normal and *right* to you. i grew up in the u.s.a. but have also spend time in other countries where circ was much less common. i remember explaining it to one [uncirc'd] lover who had never heard of it before and his shocked and horrified reaction stayed with me: "They cut off WHAT???!!!!"

[Carrie Jo]

My husband and I discussed it and I've decided he should make the decision since he has the parts and the experience. It's the same reason I go to a female gynecologist. DH is very adamant about our possible hopefully future son being circ'd for all of the reasons mentioned above. He fully expects our son to be into sports and feels like it is all around better. Also, he says having less senseitivity is a good thing because it makes you last longer in bed. I'd have to agree with him on that ;o)

[Erica]

We didn't have our sons circumsised. While it was hard for us to make the choice, especially for dh, we feel we made the right one and if it was the wrong one our sons can always change that. We went with the not medically necessary stance. I wouldn't put my child through something I didn't have to. Sex is supposed to feel 75% better with the foreskin so maybe they'll even thank me, lol. No seriously we just followed our instincts which said if they don't need it removed why do it? I know dh does wish they looked like him but not enough to do surgery. I loved reading all the responses here, all the reasons why and why not, great discussion and no fighting, yeah!

[juliejulie]

All I can say is letting Marko be in charge of penises is a good idea. Men should be in charge of something once in a while. Like taking out the garbage is also a good thing for them to be in charge of. It makes them important and included. =)

[DMouse007]

I can't believe I forgot this earlier......

I used to work with a guy who was circ'd at 17 after an accident (very long story). As someone who knew sensation before and after, he always said that he had been robbed.

[Erin]

My 20 month old son was circumsized at birth. It was hard for me, I cried, but like you, I let my husband make the decision on this one. I figure, he knows more about what it is like to have a penis than I do.
My son did have some scarring that sort of fused the head of his penis onto the shaft. The cure was to gently push back the skin with a wipey each time I changed his diaper. It wasn't painful, and his penis is fine now. The skin is no longer fused.
If we have another boy, I will probably do it again, but I won't like it one bit. I hated seeing his little penis all red and raw and sore. On the positive side, they do heal exceptionally fast.
Good luck with your decision.
-Erin

[reenie]

While I completely understand and don’t blame people for circumcising we left our son intact for a few reasons:
- Looking like dad as you mentioned wasn’t enough reason for us…he won’t look like dad until he’s old enough that he shouldn’t be looking at dad anymore.
- He was born with it. I think if it wasn’t meant to be there he wouldn’t have it in the first place…it seems somewhat akin to cutting off my earlobe or the tip of my nose.
- It seemed silly to make him go through unnecessary surgery that might have complications. I thought “How would I feel if he had to have further surgery and ended up mutilated just because “everyone does it””?
- My husband wanted to leave him intact.
- I don’t have a penis, so I didn’t feel like I had much of an argument for cutting it off.
But like I said…I don’t blame anyone for doing it themselves. It’s a very personal decision. I hope you don’t get any flak from those you care about.

[chris]

We had our son circumsized and in some ways, after I found out how they do it, I wish I hadn't had it done. It seems so cruel. On the other hand, it's easier to take care of. My nephew isn't circumsized and they've had some issues, even though both parents are doctors and should know better. Who knows.

Good luck.

[MistyD]

Also wanted to add that circing to try to prevent penile cancer isn't a cure all, I recently read that men develop cancer along circ scar lines too. (I can cite that if anyone wants.)

Like Christine said, many women will develop breast cancer, cervical cancer too. If I have a daughter I will not have her breasts and cervix removed to try and prevent that.

Also, FGM is NOT done solely to stop women's pleasure. All the same arguments of cleanliness, health, and wanting to look like other women in the family apply.

One of the function of the foreskin is to protect the glans, the "orb" if you will. A circ'ed "orb" is constantly rubbed against briefs, boxers, or pants. Over time this does desensitize the head some, how could it not? You can't really tell how much. As I understand it the head of an intact penis is usually more purple or red and the head of a circ'ed penis is usually more pink in color. This is the protection/sensitivity thing again.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of these later circumcisions were done in the USA. We have the highest circ rate in the world (and the highest amount of ED, coincidence?) and most doctors here frequently jump right to a circ. In countries where there are very low circ rates then doctors try very hard to find a non surgical solution to the problem. After all, they don't want the poor kids to be picked on by all the intact boys.....

I think a lot of infection stories stem from the erroneous idea that men need to pull the foreskin back and scrub vigorously with soap and that smegma is bad. Smegma is anti bacterial and serves a purpose, and the penis only needs to be rinsed with water or lightly soaped, no need to scrub the boy raw. It's not that hard!

My friend recently had a son and kept him intact. The subject came up around her (circ'ed) teenage brother. He plays high school football and is obviously in locker rooms a lot. We wondered what DOES happen in locker rooms, WOULD the baby get teased? He told us that some of the guys were making fun of an intact player. Telling him it looked like an elephant trunk. This guy didn't really seem phased and finally said, "Number one, why the hell are you guys looking at my dick?! And number two, at least my parents didn't cut off a piece of my dick like yours did!!!" They left him alone after that. LOL! Ah, the vocab of teenage boys!

You know what? Sometimes it is really hard to not follow the mainstream. It's easier to stick with the pack. There ARE times though that you will make a different choice from your peers and actually feel proud of it, looking back.

[Liz]

We've talked about it, and DH and I have decided to not circumcise if we have a boy. Even though I'm American, my father's side of the family is all European, so it's not hard for me to not circumcise. It was more of a question since DH is Jewish, but still, he can't come up with a good reason to circumcise, other than the babe to look like his Dad, which for us was not enough. Much bigger than that, DH has had problems that are probably due to having too much foreskin removed. My own personal experience is that sex feels better with men who aren't circumcised. Not that DH needs to know that last piece of info...

Liz

[barb]

delurking here to comment, or answer your question? :)

We didn't have our son (18 mos Jan 14th) circumsized. To be honest, we were both thinking it was a girl, and we weren't going to worry about it, but I'd read a lot on it, and the thing that hit me was "would you allow someone to circumcize your daughter?" Well, I have a daughter (14 in July, did I wait or what?) and I have consistently been horrified by the idea of female circumcision. And, since I wouldn't do it to her, I couldn't do it to him.

That being said, my husband did wonder what the big deal was, but agreed not to have him circumcized. Hubby is, of course. Also, as this is a second marriage for both of us, we are also raising his 11yo son, who is also circumsized (I haven't seen it, but I've been told). In talking with my midwife, that was a concern for me. He might be changing diapers and ask why his little brother looks so different.

Really, from what my midwife said, they don't spend that much time comparing (she had 2 sons). My stepson didn't ask anything, but we did tell him that we'd decided not to have Michael circumsized. I think he was more embarrassed that we were discussing it to be honest.

But, I think you do what feels right for you. And if you decide yes, go for it. If you decide no, prepare to say it over and over again. It's actually a small battle now.

[Jamie]

Hiya Tertia. I don't usually pipe up on your blogs..But I had to here.
I've got 2 boys, Caine, age 8 and Zachariah, who is nearly 1 year. DH is circ'ed, Caine is circ'ed, Zachariah IS NOT circ'ed. Odd I know..But here's why...
When we had Caine, DH (and family members who I now believe should have had no say in the matter) declared that it was neccessary to circ our baby boy because DH is. So we did. Nothing slipped, but my my sons penis was a bit too large for the largest bell used, and they botched it. His penis is forever mildly mangled. It's not horribly disfiguring, it's noticably odd and my son may desire to have it fixed eventually. Then when we found that we were expecting another boy this last time, I did do my research. The trend in the US is starting to balance at 60/40% circ'ed vs. non. Not circ'ing is more common in other countries as it is considered a cosmetic procedure and most insurances wont pay for it.
So with the medical issue out of the way...
Since when does a baby boy need to look exactly like his dad? As someone said above, and as I have experienced...My boys don't spend all that much time looking at dads penis. I got more questions as to why mine didnt look the same. :P
Why do we put so much focus on a babys penis, then spend the rest of thier lives wondering why they dont think about anything but? lol. It's simply another part of thier body, not unlike a toe, and needs about as much attention.
Did I mention I watched my older sons circ? To be honest, that was enough to keep me from having it done again. If it's not medically neccessary..If it has not a thing to do with my religion..If my only reason would be cosmetic liking, then that wasn't enough for me to cut a piece, any peice, off my newborns body.
Lots of luck to you on this one Tertia. Who knew the choice of circ'ing would rank right up there along with choice of University on the child stress scale. ;)

[Andrea]

De-lurking because you asked and I read your blog...

My husband is circ'ed and our new baby boy (15 weeks) is not. Reasoning: we aren't religious so that wasn't an issue, and I didn't feel we had the right to impose a purely cosmetic surgery on a newborn. Also I couldn't stand the thought of causing him even an instant of unnecessary pain. I am happy we didn't. We are not worried about explaining to him why daddy's looks different, and as for the hygiene issue, if little girls can learn to clean folds, so can boys. FWIW, most of our friends with boys did opt to circ; some have told me they now regret doing it, however.

But since you've decided to do it, just remember that it's over quickly and he won't remember it when he's older. My advice would be to have an experienced doctor do it with some good local anesthesia.

I am so excited you're almost to January!

[Jonquil]

I didn't circumcise. My husband felt that our son carried enough of his genes that identical penises weren't required.

Basically, the hygienic reasons for doing it don't seem to be as valid as they were. (On the other hand, my son was born before the revelation that the partners of uncircumcised men are more likely to get various VDs.) I didn't want to be taking care of a newly-circumcised penis as well as a navel stump.

I don't think you'll go badly wrong either way. It is, after all, a small issue. *g*

[Krissy]

Just FYI - When erect (which one hopes he would be before things like oral sex) the uncircumcized penis looks amazingly like a circumcized penis.

I live with one, and have been with others. I know.

The whole "EEEEEEee! It's different! (which it statistically wouldn't even be) RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!" thing baffles the hell out of me.

[Emily]

I love the hysterectomy comment. And I want to add that knowing someone who had to be circ'd as an adult is a lot like knowing someone who got pregnant as soon as they decided to adopt. It is very rare but because it is so commentable everyone assumes it is really common. Oh, if you adopt you'll get pg for sure. Oh if you don't circ at birth they'll have to do it as an adult.

For all of you who think it is less painful as a baby, what makes you think that? Reasearch shows babies feel pain just like adults. Why is it better to put a newborn who cannot object through a process you wouldn't want to subject an older child or adult to. That makes no sense to me.

And I completely agree with the poster that said NO decision about one's child should be made entirely by one parent, especially when we are talking about an irreversible process. A man who was circ'd at birth has little more basis for judgement of the benefits of an uncirc'd penis than a women, and less than a woman who has had experience with both.

But, that said, I agree it is a personal decision, I just think most of the arguments are lame. No 3yo penis will look anything like any adult penis so there really no issue there. In the US the chances are that at LEAST 30% of the boys in the locker room will look the same so again, no issue.

[Beth]

Well, being in a much more progressive environment then I am now, I was totally prepared in 1991 to let my first born son be an aardvark, when an odd little birth defect forced the issue. It's called hypospadius (sp?) and what happens is the urethra, instead of exiting at the end of the penis, exits somewhere lower on the shaft. Thus, in order to prevent my boy from peeing on his socks, at the tender age of one, his foreskin was used to fix his urethra.

Second son was also circumcised, probably out of laziness on my part, it was just easier then dealing with the incessant questions from my ultra-conservative in-laws (my gawd, why won't those people just take a pill!) It was over so quickly and they used a topical anesthetic so he barely noticed! He's almost 5 now and, um, a precocious masturbator, so, I guess it's better that he doesn't have more to play with! :P

So, it seems clear to me that none of the penis wielding persons in my household have suffered *any* long term ill effects from the loss of their respective foreskins.

[Melissa]

Just popping in to say that there seem to be good reasons on both sides of this debate.

If we have a son I am sure my husband will be in favor of circ'ng and that's fine with me. The fact that there are debates on how to care for an infant's/child's foreskin within these comments makes me think that the cleaning and hygiene issues aren't as clear cut (pardon the pun) as they seem.

And it does not appear that there are many issues regarding infection and future (teen/adult)complications with circ males as there are with uncirc males. Just my $.02.

But this: "My friend, a family physician, circumcised none of her three sons and opposes it for her patients. She views circumcision as a backward, ignorant thing to do that marks people as ill-educated and lower-class. (Yes, really, that's her view.)"

My God, your friend sounds like a serious pain in the ass. How can a doctor not understand cutltural influences on the people she treats?

[Christine]

Well, since you asked...

I have a 21-year old son from my first marriage who we had circumcised. He and I were talking about it (circumcision) recently, although we don't have to face that decision this time around because we're having a girl. He regrets (as do I) the decision, but he doesn't harbor any ill will toward his father and me for doing it because we truly believed there were sound medical reasons for doing it. We were young and just didn't know any better back then.

Before we found out the gender of the second baby, my current DH (he is Jewish) and I had already decided against circumcision. Mostly from reading info online, including the essays at The Circumcision Resource Center (http://www.circumcision.org/others.htm). We just couldn't find a single good reason to do it.

[Aurora]

We did not do it with Joaquin, mostly because I could not find a medical reason to do it and my doctor's agreed with me, saying it is a personal choice based on people's cultural beliefs. You have to clean a boy's penis whether it has the foreskin or not, just as you have to clean the folds of a girl's labia. It needs to be cleaned anyway. One thing to remember, it's surgery and with any surgery, there are risks associated with that. Good luck with your decision!

[Susy]

Like you, I believe to cut/not cut is up to the male in the household. The Fates spared us that decision by delivering us a female child.

If we'd had a boy, DH says he probably would have not circumcized, an then let the kid make his own decisions about it once he was older. Is that the right thing to do? I don't know.

Do I think it's mutilation? No. But that could be my Western bias speaking. I've lived in the U.S. all of my life, and I've never met an uncircumcised willy.

[victoria]

When you think about it, doesn't it seem odd that so many cultures -- not just the U.S. or S.A. -- have this compulsion to surgically alter the genitalia of their infants?

Here in the West we don't do female circumcision, but I have studied female circumcision, and some of the arguments offered in support of female circumcision are somewhat similar to some of those offered in support of male circumcision (some African cultures say of the female clitoris and labia, "it looks nasty and wrong," "all that flesh is dirty.")

I think anxiety about our children's sexual behavior is probably a very widespread feeling. I mean, think about it: sexuality is the one area of a child's life that is really off limits to the parents. It's totally out of our control. We don't like to feel that we are helpless in an important areas of our children's lives.

Childhood sexuality is also sort of repellant to us. Parents are frequently slightly disgusted when they discover their children masturbating (even though we know masturbation is completely normal, and we know better than to punish the behavior, still, we don't really like it).

The modification of infants' genitalia may be an expression of the parents' desire to contain childhood sexuality.

At the same time that we are disgusted by childhood sexuality, we also very much want our children to be sexually normal, which may be one reason we want their genitalia to resemble their parent's genitals.

It's almost as if, by controlling the shape of their genitals according to what our culture defines as "the norm," we can sanitize the genitalia (make sure they're not "dirty"), and thus ensure the child will never do anything abnormal ("dirty") with his/her genitalia.

Oh, and the whole "fewer VDs" argument? Not true, according to my physician friend. As for the "it's cleaner" argument, I suppose any time there's less flesh it's easier to wash -- but then, that same argument could be used as a reason to remove female infants' labia.

There's really no good scientific reason for performing this surgery.

[Pamela]

I did not have my son circumcised because I didn't want him to suffer pain. At 15 he made it quite clear that he had no appreciation for my concern - none at all. He was quite angry that he was different from the other guys. At 18 I think he still is mad at me.

I figured if he wanted it done he could have it done by choice. So now he'd like to be circumcised and it will cost a lot of money and hurt just as much.

[Robin]

Being Jewish I wanted my son circumcised. He is only 3 weeks old so this was a very recent occurance. I can honestly say that he did not suffer much and the charge of mutilation is an hysterical over-exaggeration that has little to do with reality. The most difficult part was the shot to anesthetize him. He cried a little but not even as much as when I change his diaper. The circumcision itself caused him no pain whatsoever. He was sucking on his uncles finger at the time and his uncle noticed no change in his sucking pattern. Not even a wince. The importance of circumcision in my religion is about a covenant with our faith, not medical benefits -- but I have read many studies that show some health advantages and only an extremely minimal risk if it is performed by someone inexperienced. The choice is personal but in the end, the circumcision itself is not a big deal.

[Jane]

We chose to do the circ but certainly understand why people don't do it.

[Barbara]

We didn't circumcise our son, even though his father had been, because my mum was a pediatric nurse and witnessed an awful lot of screaming babies. She felt the practice was barbaric and my pediatrician was pleased we decided not to. We're not Jewish, so we don't have a real cultural/traditonal drive to do it, I found the research on disease prevention, etc not compelling enough and frankly I think cutting off perfectly healthy skin for asthetic reasons of a certain group is absurd. If he wants, he can get a circumsicion when he's a teen. No regrets here.

[Milenka]

I don't have children yet, but I will not ever choose to have my son cut. I agree with the posters who called it barbaric. Many of the issues spouted above, such as the "cleanliness" issue, are not issues at all, and people who have actually done their research realize this. A child needs to learn to keep himself clean, but isn't that something he'll be learning anyway? I also hate hearing people say they want their son to "look like" daddy. We will most likely never have a bio child and will adopt African American children. We are Caucasian. Should we not adopt these children because they won't "look like" us? It's a ridiculous notion, in my humble opinion. Anyhow, this is something I feel strongly about, and I just wanted to share.

[M]

I'm actually not going to argue for or against circumcision, but I'd like to note that the smegma that collects under the foreskin of uncircumcised males also collects under the clitoral hood of women who don't clean themselves properly. In fact, female circumcision (the minimal cut in some Islamic cultures) only involves the removal of this hood. As others have noted, if we women can keep ourselves smegma-free, then so can uncut men!

That said, my father is circ'ed, I'm the only child, a daughter, single and childfree, and a good family friend (circ'ed) has recently opted NOT to have his infant son circ'ed, so I have no stance on the issue.

[RainbowW]

you asked, so here we go.

both of my sons (as am i) are circumcised. we had it done while they were still in the hospital, and our peditrician is inordinately proud of how the second one turned out. (what the fuck?)

there were a couple of reasons we did this, in no particular order of importance:

1) first, not having one myself, i don't know how to take care of an uncircumcised penis. i mean i know it's not going to be all that hard, but there are some conversations a father does not look forward to, and this is one of them.

2) the old look like dad argument. and as i am prone to wander about the house "clad in the light," it might someday become an issue. so now it's not.

3) religious. we are jewish, and judiasm requires it. while it's necessary for my sons to be converted formally because their mom is catholic (a stupid rule if ever there was one), the circumcision part for the conversion will now require only a pin-stick (which i went through myself); they will not need to go through the real deal with way Muslim boys do at 13.

4) personal preference. in a situation where it makes no medical difference, aesthetics are a valid reason to do something, and both i and my wife find them more aesthetically pleasing.

here's what i'd recommend then:

if you're going to not do it, fine. if you're going to do it, fine. however, if you have it done, -do-not- remove the little plastic thingamabob. let it fall off. if you remove it, your son's wee little wanker will bleed profusely, and it'll scare the crap out of you. don't remove the thingamabob, no matter what.

[Em]

My son is now 4.5 and is not circ'd. He's the only boy in a family of girls (and a surprise-free from meds- after an IVF-baby but that's another story). My DH and I did discuss the circ issue long and hard (no pun intended) when we found out we were getting an apple with a stem. In the end, our son needed 36 hours assistance because of tachypnic breathing issues. After that, I just couldn't see doing anything to him at days old that could cause him to go back to that agitated panting breathing thing. We asked my Ob/Gyn and he sealed the deal by saying there was really no medical reason to do it.
Since then there have been two instances which made me briefly reconsider our decision. One was when the boy was about 2.5 and came up to me, naked and wet from the bath, hands covering his penis, and asked "Mommy...whassa matta my winkie?" My heart plummeted, thinking there was an infection or something horrid. I asked "I don't know son, does it hurt?" He said "No.." I said "Do you have to pee?" He said "No..." So I said "Well what is it, son?" And he said.. "My winkie is HARD!" He then proceeded to play with it as if it were a toy. I have since found out that behavior will change when he's ... dead.
The second instance was the boy running downstairs (again naked, because he was preparing to bathe) and he was screaming... "MY WINKIE IS BLUE!!!!!!" He was not happy. Again I thought the worst and then upon inspection realized that small son had peed his pants (new blue jeans) and the dye had bled through his underwear and stained him a lovely shade of denim. I reassured him that soap would fix the problem, and that perhaps peeing in the toilet would work better?
He has never had any issues with infection, or any problems other than a ham handed doctor trying to retract his foreskin and making him yell. I then yelled at that doctor, quite loudly. He bathes it himself, and even when we had full diapers he was MUCH easier to clean than the girls ever were.
Many hugs and love from my Tadley and his "winkie"!

[Penny]

Tertia, as you said the decision has been make and these other opinions are academic. But it has been a fascinating 'conversation'. Thanks for opening the opportunity as it's been great to hear so many personal experiences, on both sides.

I'm curious to know if, and how, this discussion has affected your decision.

[beaver girl]

Holy Cats!

Two questions:

1 - are you sorry you asked?

2 - is marko really going to read all of this? (I wouldn't blame him if the answer was no.)

[projgen]

Wow, couldn't you have asked a less controversial question, like "Coke or Pepsi?" :)

Hmmm... let's look at some reasons given here:
- They might have to have it done later as an adult
I dated a guy who was circ'd for health reasons at age 32. He said it was excrutiating. My husband has a friend whose foreskin actually tore during intercourse. Bled all over the place, resulted in a circ.
On the other hand, I have lots of friends who didn't get circ'd and happily going along with no problems whatsoever. And not having any trouble with girls ;)

- Painful/not painful
I have been to many Jewish circumsions. They are usually done in someone's home, with a huge crowd, lots of singing and food, and usually no injections of painkillers. I have only seen one baby cry longer than the 10 seconds it takes to actually snip the foreskin, and one I went to, the baby never made a peep and was awake and happy (!) the whole time.
On the other hand, I have known people who have experienced difficulties with their sons' circ's. These were all hospital circ's btw. Having never *seen* a hospital circ, I don't know how it differs from the Jewish Mohel's procedure. (the Mohel is the guy who does the snipping)

- Pretty/not pretty; stinky/not stinky
My personal preference is circ'd, but that's because that is what I am familiar with.
On the other hand, I was once with a guy who was not circ'd. Made no difference to me. Discussions with girlfriends have pretty much resulted in the same answers.

- Loss of sensitivity
My husband says that obviously he has nothing to compare to, but he's quite happy with his sensitivity, and doesn't feel at all deprived.
On the other hand - oh, there is no other hand. The guy I dated who was circ'd at 32 said he was happier post-circ.

- Healthy/not healthy
Hygiene, hygiene, hygiene. There were plenty of reports that said women were less likely to have cervical cancers with an uncirc'd male. Men were healthier with circ's.
On the other hand, there are plenty of current reports showing that circ's make no difference. I think we are far more aware of hygiene issues than we were decades ago.

- Mutilation?
I think that's harsh. I also think comparing a circ to fgm is extreme, as well. If people must make a comparison, compare circ to the facial mouldings of some African tribes, where they insert disks into children's lips or ears to mould them into a particular shape relevant to that particular community.
On the other hand, based on comments here, there are obviously some men who are very angry about having been circ'd and feel they are missing something.

Basically, in our case, if we are blessed with children, and blessed with a boy, the choice is out of our hands. We are observant Jews, and our laws, which we joyfully embrace, tell us to circ our sons in remembrance of G-d's covenant with Abraham. It's not something to be taken lightly. There is a lot of responsibility in circ'ing your child. I don't know what we would do if we were not Jewish.

In the end, everybody has to do what they are most comfortable with for themselves. You can't do (or not do) something because your pediatrician thinks that people who circ are ignorant or what will other people think? or my mother will give me such a hard time... the list goes on. It what the mother and the father think will be best for their child based on their beliefs and (hopefully) informed decisions.

Sorry this is so long. Let me make it longer: I appreciate almost everyone being so respectful here! I know this is an emotional topic for many people; thank you for making me feel safe to post my beliefs on this topic.
projgen

[LauraN]

A little background...

I am Italian where males are not circumcised, my hubby is Jewish but not observant. My husband was circumcised since it was routine in the States when he was born. When we found out we were expecting a boy we made the decision not to circumcise. Maily because it is not medically necessary, I couln't stomach him suffer pain and also I didn't want to take any chances of possible problems. His penis will always look different from daddy's and it would have looked different no matter since each penis is unique. My son is 7 and not once has he asked about the differences and he takes plenty of showers with his dad. We had a conversation once about circumcision since he noticed that some of his friends were circumcised and that was the end of it for the time being. His male cousins are all intact and in the States the ration between cut and uncut is 60/40, so that won't be a problem either.

I hope this helps.

Laura

[projgen]

"if we are blessed with children, and blessed with a boy, the choice is out of our hands."

erm, just wanted to clarify - this makes it sound like a girl wouldn't be a blessing. She would, she absolutely would!!! Just bad wording on my part.

[LauraN]

One more thing...Cleaning my son's uncut penis is not an issue at all.

L.

[Amber]

My DS is circ'd. Daddy's choice, and I 100% agreed.

I nursed him right before they took him, and 15 minutes later he was returned to me. He was sound asleep, and no red blotches on his face which led us to believe he must not have cried. Even now when he cries his "stork" bite turns bright red.

He woke up 30 minutes later. I nursed him again. And that was just the beginning...

[Becki]

My husband, too, has jurisdiction over all penises that reside in our little fiefdom. So I let him make the decision (in favor of circumcision), but I agreed. In my mind, the arguments in favor included (in no particular order) that it would be good for my son to look like his dad, that a circumcised penis looks nicer (to me, anyway), that the one uncircumcised penis I had close, um, contact with I did not enjoy having close, um, contact with. And why inflict that on a future daughter-in-law? Last but not least, I thought it would be easier to keep a circumcised penis clean. For the record, I was right on that one.

Fast forward five years later to a charming boy who can't seem to get three quarters of his teeth brushed, and I feel very good about any steps I've taken to simplify his hygiene routine.

Just remember: as with so many decisions in the future, it's your choice, your decision one way or the other isn't going to ruin your kid, and other peoples' opinions are useful only insofar as they help you to be comfortable with your own reasoned decision.

[Amy]

We opted to skip circumcision. (1) There are plenty of other differences between Ben and Daddy's penises, namely size and hair. (2) We talked to a NICU employee when trying to decide. Her husband was uncut, but they decided to circumcise their 8-year-old son when he was born. She'd always regretted her decision. (3) We figured Ben had been through enough, medically speaking, and had seen another couple stuck waiting for hours after circ. to finally take their baby home from the NICU--the baby had some bleeding that hadn't stopped promptly. (4) There's really no medical reason to do it. (5) Hygiene isn't an issue. Unless you're telling me Europe is infested with men with smegma-filled foreskins who don't know how to wash themselves. (6) Socially, in our neighborhood, it's about 50/50, so my son might think half of the other penises look funny and half of the other boys might think his looks funny. So what? Kids find plenty of other things to tease about.

I have no regrets about skipping circumcision for my son. My aunt has several uncirc'd sons, and advises just basically leaving it alone for the most part. No need to retract it forcibly by age 5 or anything--just wash it, tugging it back gently for however far it goes (which at age 4 is not very far).

Added bonus: optical illusion of a larger penis owing to extra length of foreskin!

[Cris]

We had our first son (now 2.5) and will do this son (due anytime now) as well. I let DH make the initial decision (he DOES have a penis) and then I agreed with him.

It's a very personal decision, and don't let anyone think negatively of you for what you choose.

[JenAtHome]

We had both of our sons circumcised. Yes, the "looking like Dad" part really did mean something to us -- my husband is involved in bathing, potty training, etc. and we thought it would be psychologically more healthy for our boys. Also, although it's not a big deal, there are a couple of studies that indicate that it reduces the risk of certain types of infections, etc. My older son's best friend was not circumcised, and when he was 3 he developed a terrible infection under his foreskin which nearly required the procedure at that time. They managed to clear it up, but the little guy was in a lot of pain for a long time.
Also, my personal esthetic is that it looks better. But that's just me.

[Drama Queen]

Here are my thoughts:
http://hyphen.bravehost.com/3reasons.html

[Kelly]

Oh my gosh I haven't read one comment but I saw the number of replies. Can't imagine what it all says. But, I let my husband make this decision for our son for obvious reasons. He decided to have Eddie circumcised. I figure the best thing to do is read the facts and make the decision that is right for you - I have a hard time seeing how these things become such vicious debates when what bearing does it really have on my life what another couple does with their son's penis? Or what bottle they use, or if they breastfeed, of if they co-sleep? Fortunately, I am only responsible for me and the decisions my family makes - not anyone else's. My husband and I have a hard enough time tripping over one another with our babes that I won't put myself in a position of authority on any topic. Good Luck with your choice.

[GirlSeven]

I've never posted here before, but feel compelled...since you ask. When my husband and I made the decision, we did a lot of medical research and based some of our choice on that (as we had no religious basis for it to be done). What it came down to is that the most recent studies show that there is no increased risk of cancer. Second, it is just as clean either way. An uncircumcised penis is a lot like a vagina...most girls/women keep them perfectly clean. As far as looking like his father...if he had different colored hair or eyes, we wouldn't change it, so that thought didn't hold. Finally, we decided that it wasn't fair to have a medically unnecesary cosmetic procedure done on a child who has no say in the matter...the skin being removed is supposed to be the most nerve concentrated spot on the male body. If he decides later on that he wants it done, we'll give him our support.
Anyhow, that's my story. Good luck with your decision.

[dana]

Dang something else to think about -

I just told DH he had to make this decision, I'd have one and I'm tapped out on decision making - you should see his face now LOLOLOLOLOL

[Tess]

No kids here, but just thought I'd share the fact that I've never seen a (real live*) circumcised penis - and I've seen my fair share. ;) They've all been lovely and clean too. Let's face it, even a circumcised penis is going to get a bit cheesy if it isn't washed regularly.

Circumcision is rarely done here in the UK - usually only for religious or medical reasons - never for cosmetic reasons.

*I haven't seen any dead ones either - just *ahem* the odd photographed or videoed one.

[elizabeth]

Umm, three circumcised boys here. We circumcised because we are observant Jews. All circumcisions were preformed in our Synagogue by a V EXPERIENCED Mohel. All boys are healthy. I'm wonderfully bonded with my sons. The procedure takes two seconds and the penis is a bit raw for two days. My 3.5 y/o loves to play with his penis and the 4 m/o twins have erections. It's just a personal decision. I'm always amazed at how charged people can get on this subject.

[Kathleen]

My son is 12 years old and circumcised...it is the only big regret we have so far in parenting.

Our pediatrician recommended it, my husband was leaning towards doing it anyway and so we did it. It's no longer recommended as a routine medical procedure. Our son has blond hair and blue eyes, my husband has brown hair and brown eyes. The idea that we cut off a piece of our son's perfect body so that he would "look like Dad" embarrasses us now.

There really is nothing like having your son ask you why he was circumsized and having to explain the only reason you cut off a functional piece of his body was so that his penis might look more like his Dads. It's not fun. I don't recommend it.

[Tess]

You've got a point there Kathleen, after all, nobody has their labia shaped just like Mommy's. (Please, tell me they don't.)

I can understand why people would have it done for religious or cultural reasons, but cosmetic reasons beats me. Let's face it - whatever you do - that particular body part is never going to look attractive.

[mercybuttercup]

We both assumed we'd have our son circ'd - neither my husband nor I had ever even seen an uncut penis before. But then our childbirth instructor talked about how all the things we've heard - health risks, cleanliness, etc - turned out not to be true, and that it was only being done about 50% of the time where we live. We had no idea.

We discussed it a lot, although I told my husband the final decision would be his. We had a long talk with our pediatrician, who reiterated that there are no medical or hygienic reasons, and reminded us that things people of our generation experienced - being a misfit in the locker room, girls thinking it looks ugly - really won't be an issue for a kid born in this century in most places.

We were both still completely undecided, so we decided to err on the side of the decision that didn't involve lopping bits off. However, if the statistics in our area had been more lopsided in favor of cutting, we probably would've gone ahead with it for the fitting-in reason.

I suspect that unless you're one of the rare people who has problems resulting from either decision, it really won't matter much either way.

[Sue]

Hi Tertia,
Here in Australia it would be very difficult to find a dr willing to do a circumcision. I never even considered having my son circumcised; it's totally unnecessary medically, painful and I simply couldn't put my precious boy through that - for what? To me, it does not matter one iota if he doesn't look like dad or grandpa or whoever; how many times is he going to compare his bits with others anyway??

My fave childcare book states that the uncircumcised penis requires the same, special care that the elbow requires....

Looks like you've got a ton of info and opinions here - good luck with your decision!

[Julie]

I already posted, but had to again...

... I HAD NO IDEA that there was such a thing as female circ. Seriously have never heard of such a thing!!!

Plus, I had both my boys cric... What is this ring that's supposed to fall off? Some kind of plastic??? My boys didn't have that. Their winkies were just a tad bit pink, and that was all there was to that. Didn't seem to bother them at all, either when they peed or when it got wet while being bathed. Just put vasoline on it for a few days, with some guaze.

I was so surprised that people feel so admament about it. It was something that we really didn't think much about. The Bible says that God wanted the Isrealites circ. and that was good enough for me... I just asked hubby if he ever regretted being circ., and he said that he's never given it any thought at all. *shrugs*

Good luck, and January is no near!!!!!

Hugs
Julie

[tess]

Julie, you might find this site informative regarding female circumcision - or female genital mutilation as it's otherwise known. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

Sadly it is still a big issue in many parts of the world.

[e]

!. i think regardless of your choice your children will turn out fine ...

2. why? why would you chose to do it now? ANY unnecessary surgery seems to me to be pointless. I would not color the hair of a toddler to make her more sexually appealing. I have never seen my husbands fathers penis so I don't know how they compare, but I seriously doubt this in an ongoing issue for him.

3. you can't change your mind after the fact. if Adam wants it done later....so be it.....but if he wants to FEEL all those nerve ending that would have been cut off. well. then let it be. who wouldn't want sex to feel all that much better??

4. have I been drinking while commenting? sure I have! but truely, a mother of daughter but owning 2 circed nephews I can say, either is fine. the thing that matters most in the love they get at home. and it is obvious how much of that is awaiting them.

[HeatherP]

Tertia:
I am v v anti routine newborn circ for a number of reasons (but basically because I'm Irish and it's not done at all in my culture), but dh is circ'd and he made some noises about having it done all the times I had babies. #2 was a boy, who died, and #3 was a boy, who is not circd. Honestly Tertia, I had waited so long and prayed so hard for a healthy baby that I could not have sent him away to have anything like that done to him. I just couldn't. I'm not talking about having him sent off for a painful proceedure - I'm talking about finally having that living breathing baby in my room, and I just did not want anyone to take him away, not even for a second. Of course he left to go to the ped for something and I got in the shower and tore myself away from him, but I was totally unprepared for my emotions after his birth. I found that having a living baby after you have a dead baby is very overwhelming (fucking understatement of the year). There will never, ever be a picture of me holding him as a newborn on display in our home, because the whole time I was in hospital I looked like I had barely survived a train wreck. So, I guess my take on things is to be prepared, and I think that Marco should be prepared too; you might just not want to have to deal with the separation or worry that he won't bond, or that he won't bond as well as Kate or that he'll have bf'ing issues when the time comes for the circ. You are about to be very fucking overwhelmed (in the best way that life can offer).

[Rachelle]

My son is circumcised because we are Jewish, but I don't think it's something I'd do if I wasn't. I know there are some advantages - less chance of transmitting sexual diseases when older, easier to keep clean - but I think with good hygiene practices, it's not really necessary anymore. Looks-wise, I'm not sure it's justifiable - most people here (in Australia) DON'T have it done anymore, so looks-wise he'd look different to everyone else.

[Rachelle]

I should add that the Jewish circumcision was done without anaesthetic about from giving the baby a drop of red wine on the finger. He cried only when he was undressed - i.e. cold. He was not himself that night but seemed fine after that. I wouldn't say it seemed extraordinarily painful for him, but my husband said it was a very hard procedure to watch. We had no complications.