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I'm sure there are others better able to comment but...have you tried putting them in one bassinet together?
AS far as I'm aware of, you can ferberize (teach them to put themselves to sleep) from day 1- put them in crib/bassinet, then check on them in 10 min. if they're still crying. When/how is a matter of personal choice, imho.

I feel for you. I only am dealing with one small troll like baby who demands to be held in the crook of my arm and he's about 2.5w old now. I have a 2.5 yo son and he slept with us until he was like 4 months old (in our bed) then we moved him to his crib (god FOBID the child sleep in the expenisve co-sleeper attached to the bed) and brought him in after he would wake at night. I am in the "do whatever the hell works" category of parenting. I assure you, my son sometimes STILL sleeps with us (my 2.5yo on occasion when he's ill/scared) and it is not a habit. I would have hung naked upside down in a tree to get any sleep with a newborn. My newest son is a demanding little troll when it comes to sleep, so I just hold him, there will come a day when he won't want me to hold him any longer, and trust me, it comes sooner than you think.

Hang in there, it will get better.

Everyone has their own opinion on the matter, but I didn't feel comfortable letting my daughter "cry it out" until she was 6 months old. It took her a little while to get the idea, but by 8 mos she was sleeping 12 hours in her crib without fighting at all. Those first six months were tiring and she spent most of the time in my arms, but I cherish that time I had with her. I don't regret "babying" her one bit! They don't stay little for long! Now she won't stay still long enough for me to hold her! As long as it feels right to you, treasure the time with your little ones. I kept saying to myself "She won't be 15 years old and still sleeping in my bed. Eventually she'll sleep alone."

I just kicked Kaitlyn out to her own bed and she is 6 months old. A little late, yes, but she took to it beautifully.

I think when babies have gained enough weight, they tend to sleep better at night... they are less likely to get hungry and wake up. For your two beauties, I think it is much too early for cio. I also have read many times that you can't spoil them this young. Some drs have told me to wait until 6 months to cio which is what we did this time. Didn't do that the first time with Alyssa, and we paid for it in many long nights of walking her and coaxing her to sleep. (we did cio with her at almost 9 months after reading every sleep book out there and trying every other method known to man.)

These first weeks are so incredibly difficult. I think you should get the sleep you need any way you can and if it isin your bed, then do it. When they are older and heavier, it will be easier to get them in their cribs... it has worked this way for us 2 times now (one more smoothly then the other but it did work).

Take care!

The Ferber method is wonderful (http://tinyurl.com/55zoy), but not recommended until at least 5-6 months old. I've always believed you can't spoil a baby under 6 months old (I have three, youngest is 7 1/2 months.), but you can try things like laying them down at the first signs of sleepiness, before they get fussy-tired. Sometimes they'll go to sleep on their own, but if not, pick them back up after a few moments and soothe them. Sometimes (not always) that will help them to learn to go to sleep on their own.
I've not had to deal with twins, but I've heard (as someone has mentioned, I think) that they sometimes sleep better in the same bed, since they're used to being together in the womb.

I feel silly leaving all this assvice, but you did ask.

Hope you can get some rest soon.

God bless,
LadyBug

You are right, Tertia. They are too young (I think) to let "cry it out". That method is not going to be effective until 8 months of age, or when object permanence is developed. Until then, the child is too young to realize that mommy is there even though she is not in sight, and there is usually a valid reason for crying. I have a 4 wk old, and I have been putting her in her bassinet after she is sleepy. She will stay there for a couple of hours and then wake up. It can be a tedious process, where you are up and down many times a night. So far I can usually handle it, other nights when I am really tired I do take her into bed with us. Now in your situation, multiply that by two. I really think this problem will work itself out in time. When you feel up to it, try maybe one of the two babies in their bassinet for a couple of hours (when the baby is already asleep or v sleepy). Rotate between the two babies so each gets a turn. Hopefully pretty soon you can get both to sleep alone for a couple of hours. Please don't stress about it, though, as it is too soon to worry. Right now the babies are learning they can trust you to be there to meet their needs. If this means co-sleeping for awhile so you are not totally dead-tired, then so be it.

Hi Tertia, first time posting - congrats on your adorable twins :) Have you tried swaddling them in their bassinets? That worked wonders for my twins for the first 3 months.

I personally think they're too young for cio. (I only did it for the first time when they were 7 months). I believe Ferber doesn't recommend cio until 6 months. If swaddling doesn't work, and cosleeping does for the time being, then by all means let them sleep with you.

Someone once sat down and reminded me that my son had never been alone! in his entire existance, he had never not had my heartbeat, or my presence, or my voice and breathing. So it was reasonable for him to expect to be with me, on me against me, all the time at first.

Adam and Kate have -truely- never been alone. So it's probably very scary for them to sleep alone. Try letting them sleep together in the bassient and the crib, My girlfriend who had twins let them do that til they were six months old and she said that they would invariably curl up around one another.

Good luck honey!

My personal story (what worked for me, see if any of it works for you); Its a free-for-all for the first four months. Wherever. Whenever. If they were asleep in some way that bought me some sleep, it was good. It was at four months (with both but I didn't 'get it' until the 2nd) that serious patterns started emerging. Specifically up 2 hours, nap, up 2 hours, nap. And miraculously, when they got enough sleep during the day, they slept better at night. I can't remember the exact stretches at night but I know I considered it sleeping through.

Both made it into their own cribs by 6 months (that was when I CIO with my first, didn't have to with my second). Knowing there was an end in sight (with #2 - said affectionatly) made the 6 months much more bearable then wondering if I was doomed to edge sleeping forever.

I think if you *could* get them to sleep alone now, all the better for you but I don't think you are setting any irreparable habits or anything. Do what you have to do to get enough sleep to function. Good Luck!

I really sympathize with the no-sleep thing, but even the cry-it-out proponents (of which I am definitely not one) say that they're too little to cry it out before 6 months. Even they say it's too early to expect them to do it before then.

That said, I personally don't believe it's ever appropriate. (And I emphasize _personally_ because it is, after all, a personal decision. You know your kids and what they need and can handle.) A lot of people will tell you it is, and a lot of people do it. But I've met people who have let their kids share their beds and who never regretted it; now that the kids are kindergarten-age they are confident, happy, and _in their own beds_. Meaning, it's not impossible to get them out of your bed, no matter what the alarmists say.

If you'd like an alternative to the cry-it-out approach, try _The No-Cry Sleep Solution_ by Elizabeth Pantley. I'm reading it now, and like it very much so far.

For the record, I share my bed with my 14-month-old son; he starts off the night in his crib and when he wakes to feed I bring him into bed with me. Probably at this point he could go back to his crib but I just like him with me; I sleep better and I love waking up with him smiling at me. I figure the small inconvenience is more than acceptable for the short time we'll be able to do this. I agree with the above; get your sleep and don't worry about the future too much: one thing people say that is true is that what they do now will change so many times; no habit is written in stone at this point.

best of luck to you! I'm loving the image of them cuddling all over you. (:

I put Jake to sleep on the floor by my bed in his bouncy seat. He wouldn't really sleep in his cradle at all. When I was ready for him to move upstairs to his room - in went the bouncy seat into the crib. Gradually, I transitioned him to sleeping there by himself. This occurred around 4 mo I believe.

Delurking (for a second time) to give a resounding, No!!!!!

You are making a wonderful decision letting them sleep in your bed with you. If you are getting sleep that way, then that is what you need to do. They can't get bad habits this little, all they know is what they need and if it's to be close to you, then that's what they NEED. As long as having them in bed means you are all sleeping more, I'd keep them there. If it gets to a point where they sleep better in the bassinet (this happend for me at about 5 weeks) then re-evaluate your situation then.

They are waaaayyyy to young to Cry It Out. Even the harshest of CIO fans like Wiesenblum (or however you spell his name) says you shouldn't start before 4 months. Many sleep experts say 6 months and some say never, lol!

But Weisenblum's book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" minus the CIO part, is very good and informative. It has lots of information on normal sleep habits etc., for all the ages. I have a lot of issues with his technique and some of the "facts" he has for older children, but the basic information in the first few chapters is great.

Good Luck, I hope it gets better quickly.

SWADDLE SWADDLE SWADDLE
Like Magnolia said, Adam and Kate are used to cramped space, moving, and hearing your heartbeat. Being outside of your womb is so different, so what you can do to help them regain that level of comfort is to swaddle them and take advantage of a swing. Try putting them swaddled in a gentle swing during daytime sleep, then try swaddling them and putting them in the bassinet together at night. I only had one baby to handle, but these tricks worked like a charm.

Wishing you good luck and good sleep!!

Your post brings back lots of memories (and anxiety) of when my girls were first born! Like you I was SO worried of starting bad habits...but from my experience, I would say do what you have to do to get through the first few months and to get sleep for all four of you!

We kept our girls in bassinetts in our room for all of 3 weeks before putting them in their cribs in THEIR room - I woke up at every little sound or movement (and there were lots of them).

We went through a phase where they would only fall asleep in their bouncer chairs so we would put their bouncers in their cribs at night and let them sleep that way - sounds crazy now that I'm typing it out, but it worked at the time!

Also went through a phase w/our one daughter sleeping w/me in our bed for at least part of the night from about 3-5 months - it was the only thing that worked; but she eventually learned to sleep on her own in her own crib.

I personally think it's WAY too early to let them cry it out (can't remember what the 'experts' say, but at least 4,5,6 months old or something like that??). And bad habits can't form this early -- do what you have to do to get through it.

HTH a little - good luck!

I personally think it's a little early to let them cry it out completely but maybe let them stay in their bassinet for a few minutes at a time to see how they get used to it. I do think it's a good idea to try and put them in a bassinet together and see how that works out.
I remembered my daugther used to wake up every 2 hours to nurse but she would stay in her bassinet for those 2 hours, which was nice. Keep trying and you'll get there. I know you just wanna know when and I know you feel desperate sometimes. I also know there is nothing we can say. But it will get better.

I agree with the swaddling advice. My babies wouldn't sleep at all in their bassinets or cribs if they weren't warm and snuggly enough, so once I remembered to do that, they were fine.
I always had them in our room in a bassinet for the first six weeks, after that they were in their own rooms with the baby monitor on all the time.
I don't think I'd have gotten any sleep with a baby in my bed, but I applaud any one who can.

Tertia,

I have done this with all my babies, cept the first one cause i didnt figure it out yet. If they fell asleep before i went to bed, id lay them in their crib, if not i would take them to bed with me and nurse them there. I found i got a lot more sleep with them in my bed, than trying to get them in and out of the crib. I would barely wake up latch child on and go back to sleep. That being said, ive gotten mine all at one time, so i know it would be a lot lot harder with the twins.

Yes you can let them cry it out, i tended to wait til 6 months to establish the crib, bedtime routine. By that age, they are more able to adjust to sleeping on their own. But i know of people who have sleep trained their kids earlier. I just wasnt into being so rigid with their schedules.

Its really all a matter of preference, if getting the babies in their own bed will help you keep yoru sanity, go for it.

Another trick that worked for my last one was leeting him sleep in his carseat, he wouls sleep 4-6 hrs there, as a young babe, i started doing that at 2 months.

Hang in there,keep up the good work!
MJ

get a vibrating toy or attachment for the basinet that vibrtes. works like a charm

My method is similar to Deanna's. I keep a Pack-n-Play (dunno if you're familiar w/ these ... it's just a portable cot basically) right next to the bed and I nurse baby and put him down when he's dozey. I also second the tight swaddling. It worked wonders with all of mine. and I definately would put the two down in the same cot.

Mine would sleep a few hours with this method and then wake to nurse. As they got older and I knew they couldn't possibly be hungry again that soon I'd muck about and let them cry just a minute before going to them. After a bit they get to the point where they wake, fuss, then nod back off.

Mine all began sleeping through at about 4 months.

Be patient and good luck!

I'm also in the "whatever works" camp when it comes to parenting. Newborn sleeping in particular. The fact that babies were so picky about where and in what position they sleep in was probably the biggest shock to me as a mom (the thing I was most unprepared for). Well, that and just how much cleaning up of junk is involved once they become mobile. My daughter slept in her swinging swing for the first 8 weeks, then after that in an elaborate recreation of the "feel" of the swing in her bassinet until 5 monhts, then finally in her crib on her belly. My son would not sleep anywhere except on his belly, so he slept in the bed with me (I had convinced myself that I'd be able to hear him STOP breathing if he was belly sleeping right beside me) for 2 months while dh slept on the couch, then in the pack n play for 2 more months in our room before making it into his own room. After being removed from the newborn period, the way I look at it is this...the babies have been snug inside you, up against you (and each other!) for so long.....it is a very sudden and rude awakening to all of a sudden be expected to sleep solo. My opinion (and I'm sorry if this sounds too AP....I swear I'm not!) is let them develop that ability slowly......they will get there! My son is a great sleeper now at 2. My daughter....well...she still joins us in bed almost every night at almost 4 years old.....but for a while she was in her own bed!

Do whatever works for you and Marko. Seriously. Once the babies start falling into a routine (and they will), then you can work on getting them out of your bed and into their own (although I'd second the suggestion that you put them in the same crib/bassinet at first). No CIO at this stage - it's just not effective in a baby younger than about 6 months.

My son is 6 months old, and despite swearing I'd never co-sleep, I've spent many nights with him in my bed. He sleeps fine in his crib for the most part, but if he's feeling "playful" often the only way to get him back to sleep is to lie down in bed and let him nurse himself to sleep.

You can't spoil a baby the first 3 - 6 months. Way, way to early to let them cry it out. Even Dr. Ferber himself doesn't advocate following his advice before the age of 6 months old. Try swaddling - it worked to get Luke in his basinette. Do what you have to at this point, but at around 3 months you should start putting them down in the basinette or crib awake so they can learn to put themselves asleep. Doesn't mean you have to let them cry at that point - just that if you continually rock them or nurse them to sleep, that's they're going to associate that with sleep and need that to sleep (trust me - I have a 17 month old who is still being rocked to sleep - I so wished I'd listened to our doc when she told us to practice putting him down awake at 3 months). For the first few months, cuddle them all you want, let them sleep with you if you want. But keep trying the basinette thing, try swaddling, and periodically put them in their basinettes awake to get them used to it.

Good luck.

This is such a hot button issue, but I must tell you (I have two kids--4 yr and 20 mos) that I am a HUGE fan of teaching them to sleep on their own. I started this around 6 wks old for each kid. Please read Richard Ferber's book (Solving Your Child's Sleep Problem) and Jodi Mindell's book (Sleeping Through the Night). Mindell esp. was a GODSEND and my BIBLE when it came to infants and toddlers and sleeping. I know it's REALLY HARD at first, but you will be sooo GLAD when it gradually starts to happen and they can fall asleep on their own. Trust me. You will all sleep SO MUCH BETTER when they learn to fall asleep in their own beds on their own. I have always kept my kids on strict nap schedules and it has kept me sane!!! Good luck and hang in there! The first months are HARD!
You're doing great!!

Oh my god Tertia, this question could get more heated than the circ.
I have 4 kids, they were all different. But most of them started heading for a crib somewhere between 6 wks and 3 months. We didn't let them cry it out until somewhere around 4 to 6 months. But it did seem like we all needed our own space to sleep better. I nursed 2 of them and had to get up every damn night. The two who were bottle fed my husband got up with Friday, Saturday and Wednesday nights. I got up the other 4. It worked really well for us. A full night of sleep every couple of nights was amazing. I know you have two so this is harder for you. Can the nanny step in once in awhile?

How do they feel about their carseats/buckets? I found that my two younger daughters liked being "snuggled up" in their carseats, especially since that didn't require them to be laying totally flat.

This seemed to be a STRONG preference for DD#2, since she was clearly a belly sleeper. I wasn't ABOUT to let a newborn sleep unattended on her stomach, so we compromised. I got her comfy in her bucket, and sat the entire bucket in her crib. That way, she got used to the sights/sounds/smells of HER bed, in HER room, yet didn't feel so "abandoned." I think many infants, particular the very small ones, feel kind of... um... "overwhelmed" by the vast expanse of space around them. I can only imagine that being even MORESO the case with twins (having been in close quarters for the bulk of their lives so far).

I hope this means that you are getting SOME semblance of sleep these days, even if all the blood is rushing to your head from hanging precariously off the edge of your bed. LOL

How's the eating and burping going? And are they getting their days/nights worked out a bit better yet?

XO
TSB

I seem to remember my birthing instructor saying that once they reach 10 lbs (~4.5 k) that it's ok to start letting them "cry it out". But I'd check with the pediatrician.

I wouldn't worry about forming habits at this point. They're so little and not yet set in their ways; very forgiving.

"The Happiest Baby on the Block." Great book. Helps a lot.

I didn't read the other replys so excuse if I repeat. I think they are way too young to let them Cry it out. I would definitely try swaddling them tight and putting them in the same bassinett. They are so used to be close to eachother that they are sleeping better on you because they get that closeness. If that doesn't work them I would keep co-sleeping with them until they get a little bigger. The most important thing is that you are all sleeping right now.

((HUGS))
Jennifer

My DD slept in bed with me for the first 3 months - she wasn't having anything to do with the hand-made crescent shaped cradle I had made for her. It actually worked out great though since I think that sleeping with me helped her quickly figure out day from night. She'd wake only for feeds during the night and go right back to sleep.

After 3 months, I moved her to her crib in her own room and I slept on a single bed we'd set up in there for that purpose. We did that for 1 month while I tapered off the BF'ing. After that I was finally back in my own bed with DH. Alex transitioned through all that with hardly any complaints at all.

And yes, I heartily agree with swaddling too!

Best wishes,
Lori

I,too, am for the "whatever the hell works" method. It's worked for me for years now.

My kid/s slept with me for about the first 3 or 4 months. When it came time to kick them out (as in- I entertained the idea of letting hubby touch me with a 10 foot pole again) I started them out with naping in their own space. Then I moved on to the crib.

I think the swaddling idea is a great one, and make sure their little area is nice and cozy. Babies don't like to feel lost. It's the same reason why they hate the bathtub. It would be like someone putting you in the bottom of a pool and turning on a giant faucet. I'd cry and piss my pants in fear,too.

As for your bed, don't worry- it won't have an actual purpose other than sleep for you and Marco for quite some time. Namely, after you start getting enough sleep to have rational sexual thoughts again. You've got at least 3 months,sister.

Babies need time to figure out what's going on in the world. Go with your mommy instincts,Tertia! If they say to take all that fancy-shmancy nursery stuff back and get a bigger bed, then go for it! Try it all and see what the hell works.

For the love of all things holy, don't do a CIO or MCIO at that age. All it'll do is reduce all three of you to tears and then no one will get any sleep. Even Ferber, the CIO man himself, suggests waiting until your child understands object permenance, which is about 8-9 months old.

The first six weeks are going to suck, no way around it. That's the typical amount of time it takes a newborn to figure out night and day and to put on enough weight to start sleeping in longer stretches.

And putting them in bed with you is not the end of the world. It won't spoil them. You can't spoil two beautiful babies who do not yet know they even have hands and feet. At the worst it'll allow you to all get some sleep - it's proven that babies who room in with their parents are more in tune with the parents sleep habits and sleep better themselves.

Most of all, don't stress about all of this. You're the mother, and you know what is best for you and your family.

btw- the infant carseat idea is fabulous. I forgot all about that! The twins had reflux and slept in them for a long time. They got to be upright and snuggled in!

as with your theme of "sleeping around". Try some options, experiment with differnt positions, shop around, be impulsive,change your mind mid-thought and then after 2 or 3 weeks you'll look back and see a pattern of comfort has occurred and that will be the answer.

I'm a certified child passenger safety technician, and I have to say this: Please, please, NEVER allow a baby to sleep in their car seat or carrier if your eyes aren't on them. It's one thing to supervise them sleeping in their car seat when it happens as you're on an outing, it's quite another to do it at home, when there is every chance you'll fall asleep yourself. Infants have died and been severely injured this way, sometimes falling out, becoming tangled in the straps or choking when their head fell forward and their airway was compromised. Every child seat's owners manual will tell you this - these manufacturers are serious, and rightly so.

My younger son slept in the vibrating bouncy seat until he was five months old. We spent a fortune on batteries, but it was WAY worth it. After five months old, we were able to tell when he was crying out of hunger and when he just wanted to stay awake.

Sometimes it doesn't take experience to be able to answer some of this, being an assholette Anthropologist forced to dwelve deep into Primates also helps.

You and each other is all your babies know of the world. Their life now is pretty much still an exterior extension of the in utero one. Isolating them from you this would v likely worsen their sleeping patterns at this point. Learning takes time and these are preemies at that, they will not be spoilable for a while. In the meantime, being together in the same bassinet could help, they know each other's smell and rythms intimately, it could be an extra comfort to have the other one that close again. Most of all, do whatever seems to work for you right now, do whatever feels right. The babies will let you know, they always do.

My daughter slept in our bed until she was about 4-5 mo. old and we moved her to the crib. We prolly could have done it sooner but i was nervous. She did fine right away. Never missed me. :( :) As for ferberizing, I followed the Healthy Sleep Habits book (Weissbluth) and he doesnt recommend crying it out until 6 mo, I believe.

I would try putting them in the same crib (cot, whatever term you use)...they are probab;y too big to put in a bassinet together...mine were smaller than yours and no way would they fit in a bassinet together.

I would try putting them in the cribs right now once they are fast asleep...that way they will at least wake up there and be used to it.

You can't set up bad sleep habits now. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.

Make sure that you let them fuss a little and try to soothe them in their cribs. If they just flat out scream, that is a problem, but a little fussiness is ok.

When I had my singleton last year, I used to feel guilty about holding her till she was fast asleep...the truth is, you can't get back this time, so even though it is a trying experience, if you are ok with it and it works right now, don't feel guilty or like you are doing something wrong. they will outgrow this stage...and if it becomes a bad habit, well bad habits are made to be broken, right?! My daughter was going into her crib awake and putting herself to sleep at 3 months...even though I held her at that young age. They love to be held at that age. Don't worry about it too much.

Like you, I wanted only 2 occupants in the marital bed. The moment our twin boys arrived home from the hospital, they slept together in one crib in their own room at night. I would take them out of their room (into the family room) for their night feedings, and then return them to their crib afterwards. This worked for us up until 3 months, when they were too big to sleep together. So at 3 months we moved the second crib in right next to the first crib and we have had no night sleeping problems whatsoever. (At 4 months they are sleeping 8-9 hours straight at night). Now....if I can only get them to take a nap in the afternoon!

NOT YET! Even the most fervent cry it out proponents advise NOT letting babies under four months cry if you can soothe them (some will cry in your arms of course). There is no such thing as spoiling an infant. If you let them sleep with you for six weeks, six months, or six years you can always change your mind one day and say "okay, this is the last time." For now do what gets everyone the most sleep. And buy a king size bed because even if they spend most/all of the night in their own beds they are going to want to snuggle with you guys in your bed.
maya

There is nothing wrong with co-sleeping, we co-slept with all our babys the first year and they all sleet just fine in their own beds.

However, the word co-sleeping does imply that both parties are sleeping ;) If you are not able to sleep, than its not really much help.

I don't really have advice, I just wanted to reiterate that co-sleeping is a perfecty acceptable solution and your spoiling your babies or setting them up for bad sleep habits.

(oops)I meant to say *not* spoiling your babys :D

Let me see. I have a 5 year STILL sleeping in bed with us, and an 18 month old sleeping the night away in his own crib. Both slept with us the first few months, the youngest transferred 1st to a bassinet and then to his own crib in his own room - around 5-6 months. I too think your babies are way too little to let them cry it out - wahtever makes them happy for the first couple of months is fine. Of course you may not want to take any of my advice seeing I can't get the five year old out of me bed at all.
Best of luck,
Wendy

The first few months are sleeping Hell, no?

I co-sleep with my infants because it works. Of course they want to be snuggled up -- it's only natural. As they got older (3-4 months) I edged them to a bed near mine -- close enough that I could still dangle my hand over and stroke their backs. I also kept #2 tightly wrapped in his blanket, because he liked that. If I tried to unwrap him to tuck him into a different bed, he was Not Happy.

All books I have read on sleep-training say it's near impossible to f up an infant under, say, 3 months or so. My favorite sleep book is "Dr. Ferber" because he actually bases his information on something other than "this worked for my kids so obviously it should work for yours."

I think the earliest CIO can be expected to work is about three months. I think the earliest (coincidentally? no!) that babies can reasonably be expected to sleep through (most of) the night is about three months -- but only if they are also 10 pounds. There is something magical about that 10-lb threshhold, that allows them to eat enough to get through the night without waking up starving to death.

I hate to break it to you, but for most kids, even after they are "officially" sleeping through, there will be rough patches and bad spells and mysterious episodes where their sleep is disrupted by illness, developmental milestones (why sleep when you can stand??), excitement, boredom, fears, teething ... you name it.

Good luck, sweet dreams!

I never let mine CIO. I thought it was cruel. My kids both started out in our room. Usually in our bed - but moved to basinette once asleep, if possible.

Once they're sleeping through the night, I'd try to move them then. And since I didn't do that, I still have a 3 yr old in our bed some nights - but it's fine with us.

I'm also in the "DO WHATEVER IT TAKES" camp. My boys are 2.5 and 5 months, and both of them started out in my bed, although I never even considered co-sleeping prior to their births. With my first, he was brought to my bed out of sheer desperation. With my second, I was used to doing whatever I had to do to get some sleep. My husband found me more than once, sitting straight up on the couch, asleep with the baby over my shoulder. Simply because if I moved and he woke up, I'd rather die. My older one stayed in his bassinet until around 5 months, then he went into his crib. But the new baby is such a light sleeper that he couldn't sleep in the same room with us. I moved him into his crib for naps around 8 weeks, and full-time around 10 weeks. He's much happier in there by himself. As for sleep training, he's just turned 5 months and is only now ready to benefit from any sort of sleep training, although our methods are really an abbreviated "crying-it-out" where there's very little crying. We've just had to do what works for us. So I would say, if it gets you sleep to have them in your bed, go for it. Maybe once they fall asleep, you can move onto the couch! :)

And I would also say, just from experience, that they are probably not yet ready to cry it out or sleep train, but you will know when the time is right. With my first, we babied him way too long, and I swore that with the second, I'd start from day 1 putting him down awake, letting him go to sleep on his own, sleep training from the time he was born. YEAH RIGHT! It's too young. The day will come when they are fed, dry, and exhausted, but still want to cry to manipulate Mommy into holding them just a while longer, and you will realize that you've been had! And you'll be ready to sleep train. You're doing great; just know that the first 6 (or I'd venture to say even 12) weeks are hard, horribly so, and depressing. But put a big red mark on your calendar for the day those babes turn 6 months old, and know that from that day onwards, life will be so much better! Until they become teenagers! :)

I agree with most of the above: no sleep training before 4-6 months; do whatever works now; etc, etc. However, if you do want to get them to *try* sleeping in a bassinette some of the time, here is a trick that worked like a charm for my daughter: put a heating pad (on low) in the basinette for a few minutes before putting the baby in it (take the pad out first). My daughter hated the temperature change from warm cozy me to the cooler bed--and this was summer. Warming the bed up first helped a lot. HTH.

Oh, Tertia, this is SUCH a hard time. And such a hard thing, knowing what to do. I'm a huge believer in doing what works today, and (mostly) worrying about tomorrow when it comes. Kate & Adam still sound TOTALLY mixed up to me, and I seriously doubt that they'll still be such night owls six weeks from now. Whatever you do to survive isn't going to be so cement-like that you can't change it soon. Goodness knows, the babies are going to change all their habits every six weeks or so for the next twelve months.

I read somewhere that until kids are about 3 months past their due date (or 16 weeks past Kate & Adam's birth), their nervous systems are still pretty overwhelmed by the world. I'm a huge believer of the "do what it takes to sleep and survive" until they get past that point. One of my girls, for example, nursed for 45-75 minutes every night until she hit about 12 weeks adjusted, and we just tweaked the routine to let her do that.

For about the first 2.5 months, our three babies all slept together in one crib in our bedroom at night. This was actually a huge hassle, because we would take them one at a time into the nursery to nurse or bottle feed (that's where the glider and the formula fridge was), and they all moved to separate cribs in the nursery in early April. I knew at the time that we were lucky they were NOT night wakers--they woke to eat, then went back to sleep. Thank God. They definitely cuddled pretty close together in the crib (that was the problem, one day we found one of the girls lying on top of the other girl's face--end of co-sleeping), and one or more of the babies slept with me at naps fairly often, and we never ever did cry-it-out. There were a few nights in the early weeks when I slept with a baby at night because it was just easier.

It really sounds to me like you have two separate issues: getting Kate & Adam to be wakeful during the day and sleep at night, and figuring out where and how you want them to sleep. When you fix the first one (and it does not sound to me like you're there yet, but I promise, it will come), the second one might MIGHT just fall into place.

I hate Gary Ezzo with a red-hot passion but I did try to do the whole "eat-play-sleep" routine (with the exception that we really did eat-play-nurse to sleep) and you should think about how best to keep Kate & Adam awake more during the day. Or, to put it another way, wake them up after no more than 90 minutes of napping at any given time during the daylight hours. Problem is, until at least their due date and probably for anywhere between 6 and 12 weeks after that, keeping babies awake when they want to sleep is a seriously uphill struggle. And of course, if you're not sleeping at night, it's bloody hard to give up the long naps during the day during the transition time. But waking 'em up more during the day is probably the only solution to the midnight wakefulness you're battling now.

When you get the chance (in other words, when the kids start school), you might want to browse through some of the Dr. Sears stuff at
http://tinyurl.com/5m7qp
and
http://tinyurl.com/5d3u2

Just junk whatever doesn't make sense to you (it was about 35% for me).

I wrote out a nice long discussion of how we did sleep with our babies at http://tinyurl.com/4968q -- only, for some reason, the whole newborn phase is an enormous blur to me and there's almost nothing worthwhile in there. Oops.

Good luck. This too shall pass.

I don't post much here because I don't have little ones yet! But I wanted to say that my friend had LOTS of success with the swaddling method (book "The Happiest Baby on the Block"). She said her daughter wouldn't sleep a wink unless held, was fussy all the time, unlike her 2 previous children. She got the book from a SIL, started swaddling, and her daughter became an entirely different child - sleeping, cooing, QUIET! You might give it a go. The philosophy behind swaddling is that you want them to feel secure, like they're in the womb. I can imagine that TWINS especially need that TIGHT feeling - they were really smooshed in there together, especially your gorgeous twosome - i rarely hear of such large twinnies being born!

I also want to thank you for posting all your questions etc. Someday I will be a mommy, and I love hearing what it is REALLY like. I'm learning along with you, and it is much fun. I hope you get some sleep soon!

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070100.asp

Slings are awesome! http://www.mayawrap.com/p_mamababy.php

The No-Cry Sleep Solution is an AWESOME book! I would highly recommend it.

Will they sleep in a baby swing? My little guy napped there for the first 4 months.

I put a queen-sized matress on the floor next to our bed to keep our marital bed limited to two, and then I could go to the floor to be with my little guy until he fell asleep and then go back to our bed, or just stay if I fell asleep. I don't think you can spoil a baby. I could never figure out what I was letting him cry out. He has needs.

Good Luck, these decisions are highly personal, so I hope you figure out what works best for you.

I bought a beautiful cradle for my daughter. During the first week she was in and out of that thing all night long. After that week, when I figured out that she was spending more time in our bed anyways and I was nearly comatose from missing sleep, we decided to let her stay in our bed. It was the best decision. We all got more sleep, and I liked having her near me.

During day time naps she had to sleep in the cradle or her crib. After 3 months, she got moved to her own crib in her own room and she didn't even protest. I was still getting up for late night feedings, but not nearly as often.

My doctor said you can't really let a baby cry it out until they are 6 months old. We felt that was about the right time, since that's when Zach started realizing that he wasn't the only thing around. The guideline they provided to us was no more than 20 minutes of crying until then (and that will break your heart - believe me). We just had to suck it up and one of us slept with Zach in his room on the queen-sized futon for the first 6 months. At some point, he slept in his battery powered swing (he had reflux and couldn't lay down), and that subsided when he was 7 months old. My recommendations: try swaddling or swings.

I wanted to chime in and agree that swaddling babies is great, and that you should check out the book The Happiest Baby On the Block. (I'll note that both the APers and the Ferberizers who've read this book like it -- it's one of the few examples of common ground out there.) It can be surprisingly tricky to swaddle a little baby, but there are gadgets that make it easier, like the Swaddle Me and the Miracle Blanket. I'm also really fond of the Cozy Cocoon -- http://www.cozycocoon.com/cc.html. It's like a little baby body stocking; I got the Rock-A-Bye. My second daughter liked that thing so much I was still stuffing her in it at bedtime when she was four months old (only her legs fit). Anyway, gentle pressure and movement restriction seem to help a lot of babies sleep for longer stretches, because they don't flail around and wake themselves up.

I'm also in the Whatever Works For You camp, but what worked for me was to put a heating pad in the crib/basinett and elt the spot where the babes were about to lay down get all warm. I would let them fall deep asleep in my arms and then move the heating pad and place them on the warm, but not hot, spot.

Hope you get some help from these great responses!

Laura

I firmly beleive that in these first weeks, the only rule of sleep training is:

DO WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP EVERYONE AS HAPPY AS THEY CAN BE.

The babies have no long-term memory yet. They have no object permanence. If they sleep with you for now, it doesn't mean forever.

Heck, you could say the same thing about pre/postnatal sleeping: "Oh, Tertia. You should get those babies out of your uterus. They'll get so used to sleeping naked in the dark and the wet, they'll never want to sleep clothed in the light and the dry."

My own experience - we did a mixture of early mornings in bed with me, naps in the swing, evenings swaddled in the bassinette etc, gradually moving towards less in our bed, more in the bassinette, then into the crib for naps and bassinette for nights, etc. We gently moved each kid towards being able to sleep alone for longer and longer periods... but in those early weeks, it was a lot of co-sleeping and co-napping. A lot. And it didn't keep either from being a great sleeper later.

Tertia- longtime fan delurking here. I too say-- however you get the most sleep, you should do that.

My twins are now 6 mo. They spent the first 2 mo sleeping SWADDLED in bouncy seats with the vibrator on. My husband and I took turns sitting out with them and feeding them while the other one slept.

At around 2 mo., we figured out we'd both sleep more if we split them up for the night. I slept with one in his bouncy seat at the foot of the guest bed (and eventually just moved him into the bed with me once he didn't seem to need the vibrations anymore), my husband had the other in a bouncy seat next to our bed. Splitting up the babies was a godsend, you get to sleep whenever that one baby is sleeping. (sex? who cares about sex. i wanted sleep.)

NOw at 6 mo. my babies sleep in their own room in their separate cribs-- this started at around 5 mo, when they were really comfortable lying down. my husband and i are back in our bed together, getting up only briefly to feed them.

As everyone has said, crying it out at the stage youre at just won't work, unfortunately-- if you try it, you probably won't hurt them but you won't get any sleep either and you will certainly give them the opportunity to get all in a lather and then it will take even longer for you all to get to sleep. from what you've said about your twins, they still need body contact (and maybe swaddled vibrations would work as a substitute, as it did with our boys) in order to rest.

hang in there, dear. you're doing great, even if you sometimes feel at the end of your rope.

i'll have to read through the comments later, because i'm skiving off work as it is, but since you asked, here's my thinking on this topic:

i figure that CX is only a baby once. it's hard enough to be a baby without the feeling that you want comfort and it eludes you. this is more or less why CX goes to sleep in his own crib at the start of the night, and gets into bed with us when he wakes up. sure, maybe we've created a monster, but the three of us sleep more than we did when he was sleeping in his crib all the time (we were never of the cry-it-out school). i don't believe that making sure your child feels secure is the same thing as spoiling the child by giving him/her everything s/he wants, caving to every demand. eventually CX will want to sleep in his own bed. i don't think treating babies like older children who are capable of some logical reasoning is the answer. so, sleep sharing/co-sleeping/whatever you want to call it is what works for us.

now, as to what YOU should do. i believe you and marko are more than capable of figuring out what works best -=for your family=-. if you're conflicted about the babies in your bed, but can't get any sleep otherwise, just look at it as a short-term thing and as their day-for-night problem lessens, make moves toward getting the darlings into their bassinets and, eventually, cribs. if you're comfortable, or come to be comfortable, with them sleeping with you, carry on. you love your children and you want what's best for them, but make sure it's good for you and marko, too.

one thing that really, really helped CX was daily outings. i know it's hot as blazes there, and it was similarly hot when CX was born (born in may, we began taking outings mid-june, and kept it up--and we're in texas, i.e., 6th circle of hell), but we strapped him into the carrier and walked him around until our legs were likely to fall off. he kicked his legs and flapped his arms and generally tired himself out. he was much more eager to go to bed at night, and eventually he was firmly attached to the night-is-for-sleeping idea. now, that's not to say that at almost 9 months he doesn't have the occasional nights-are-for-play! thought, because he does. but it's easier to deal with those nights after a long string of mostly-sleepy ones.

You cannot spoil your tiny babies Tertia, just get through these first few weeks with as much sleep for everyone as you can. I strongly recommend you get yourself The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Even if you go with other methods later on this book starts off with a whole lot of very useful information about the science of how both adults and infants sleep and the path that babies take to get to adult sleep patterns. Her advice is broken down into some good habits to get into pre 4 months old while basically doing whatever it takes and then a whole range of options to make a plan from for 4 months onwards depending on whether you want them to sleep in cot/your bed whether you breast/bottle feed dummy/no dummy etc. Its a great book because it is about using her research to find ways that will work for your family rather than a cookie cutter approach.

i should clarify that we used a baby bjorn front carrier on our outings, not the car seat or stroller. the bjorn let CX flap around and pay attention to what was going on in a way that babies in strollers at that age rarely do (because they can't see out of their stroller seat).

I usually let my kids sleep with me until they were a year old - then let them cry it out in their own cribs. One of them is a poor sleeper, the other two are awesome. So, *shrug* I dunno that it WORKS 100%. Plus, I only ever had one baby at a time - two would make me a nervous wreck.
I think the most important thing is to take opportunities during the day to let them fall asleep on their own in their cribs/basinettes. If you're not holding them every time they fall asleep they eventually learn to put themselves to sleep - useful when they wake up during the night. So if they're full and sleepy try to put them down before they fall asleep. It's a challenge with a newborn, but aim for it. Let them fuss a bit, that's different from letting them cry it out. Often newborns will whimper a bit, then settle down. You'll know if they're UPSET. But if they can settle down on their own, you're on your way to sleeping through the night. Good luck, and although you might not think so, you're doing an awesome job.

My recommendation is to adjust your expectations. It's 100% normal for babies to wake up during the night to feed for AT LEAST a year. Some babies sleep through sooner than that without any harsh "training" but most do not. It's normal. It's expected. It's hard. It's part of being a compassionate parent.

Goodness! put those babies down in their cribs cuddled up next to each other, wrapped firmly in a light blankie.. that is the ONLY way we survived our twins first few months.. and remember, changes in sleeping/waking do NOT happen overnite.. it will take awhile, but well worth it!

The BOC wouldn't dare try to address this subject, but after reading all the posts, a little nursery rhyme that children sing is going through my mind, with slightly altered lyrics:

Wrap wrap
swaddle swaddle
crash
sleep sleep

wrap wrap
swaddle swaddle
crash
sleep sleep

OK, now everybody follow the bouncing ball and sing along...!

Love you T. Gorgeous

Egads- I'm afraid I didn't even make it through a fourth of the advice that you received, so please excuse me if I am repeating advice ad nauseum.

I fully get it that it is controversial, but we had both of our babies cry it out. We did "sleep training" with our daughter at 4 1/2 months and our son at 3 1/2 months. (Our daughter is now 4 and our son 2.) It is hard and I would never recommend it to anyone, but it has paid off. For us, we felt like they learned how to put themselves to sleep easier because they were so young. It took our daughter about 3 nights and our son about a week before we were able to walk into their rooms, lay them down in their cribs, say good night and then leave their rooms. They still sleep beautifully from 7-7 every night. And take 1 nap during the day.

Like I said, it was HARD those nights that they couldn't figure out how to go to sleep. However, I just got to the point that I started to resent the hours of breastfeeding to get them to go to sleep when they were so obviously exhausted.

Good luck to you, Tertia. As trite as it sounds, it is true: this will pass. Parenting gets A LOT more fun as they get older.

Tonya

Going along w/the crowd here to say that my cousin had her twin boys in the same bassinet and then crib for the first 5-6 months. Some of it was for ease for her - she has MS, and it was just easier to have them in one place. But they really did seem to be better together - sometimes one would suck on the other ones fingers while sleeping, etc. She usually wrapped them up and put them almost back to back, with some of those "baby chocks" - those triangular foam wedges that keep them from rolling over onto their stomachs. I was pregnant at the time, so spent a lot of time w/her as we both wet our feet in the pool of motherhood!

There was no doubt about it, the first 5-6 months were hard for her. She had a live-in for the first year (mostly because of the MS, and her husband traveled a lot), but by the time they were cruising in their walkers and eating some solids, they were much better in terms of sleeping!

Hang in there!

I think it's temperament, temperament, temperament!
My friend has 2 girls, now ages 11 and 14. I've known them since they were 1 and 4. Parents were big family-bed proponents,and would consider crying it out a crime against nature, but when I first met them the older was already choosing to sleep in her own bed. Same methods, philosophy etc. for #2...who STILL rarely spends a night alone in her bed! She'll sleep on the couch, or even on floor next to them, or with sister.
It's temperament, meaning, you can't do it wrong (or maybe right either??!)

My first son was swaddled and he slept through the night at 2 weeks. "Ah, HA!" I thought to myself, "I have FOUND THE SOLUTION! Swaddling! Swaddling ROCKS!"

And then God said, "Ha."

My next child wiggled out of the swaddling done by the nurses AT THE HOSPITAL, screaming all the while. Every time he was even wrapped loosely in a blanket he screamed. The first six weeks of his life he would only sleep on his tummy, all stretched out, and there was NO WAY I was going to lay him down on a bed, so I slept at a 45 degree angle in a recliner with him in a crucifixion pose on my chest.

My advice? Try swaddling, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work. Especially as hot as it is in your neck o'the woods.

I'd also try putting them in one bed. I know several parents of twins, all of whom had sleeping probs that were solved by putting the babies together.

My mother had twins when I was 13 years old. As the oldest, I helped her a lot those first couple of weeks/months/years. It can be extremely difficult to get rest with two newborns, especially when they wake at opposite times. The trick for our twins was putting them in the same basinette. They're twins; they have a special bond and like to be close. It was comforting for them to be together. We had two basinettes and ended up using only one until they were around three months old.

Best of luck. You're doing great.

Haven't read all the other comments (there are 67 already! Girl, you are some kind of popular.) but just wanted to say that my son slept in my bed until he was almost 14 months old. One could say the habit was firmly ingrained by then, but within a week of following Dr. Ferber's advice, he was nightweaned and sleeping in his own $300 crib on his $100 mattress that had previously only been used to store clean laundry. (The saga is chronicled on my blog, during February 2004, if you're looking for something to read at 2am this morning.)

Do whatever gets you the most sleep now. You can deal with any "bad habits" later.

When my first child was born, he roomed in with us in the hospital. The day we were to leave, the pediatrician came to check him out. We said to her "this baby cries every time we put him down. What should we do?" She stared at us for a minute, then kind of laughed and said "Well, I guess you'll have to hold him, won't you." So we did -- he slept in our bed every night and we carried him around all day. It worked for us. At about 4 months he was ready to go into his crib for a few hours at a time. By the time he was a year old, he was a champion sleeper. We moved to a real house when he was 18 months (out of the 1 bedroom apartment we had lived in since his birth) and we worried that being alone in his own room would be hard on him, but we were so wrong. He loved it. He's 11 now, and he's still a champion sleeper.

His little brother was a preemie. He lived in the hospital for the first month, so we figured he would be used to sleeping alone and on a 3 hour feeding schedule when he came home. Oh, no. No no no no no. This kid wanted his mommy and daddy all night. He was in our bed for months, then in our room until he was 13 months. As soon as he figured out how to escape from his crib, he made a habit of crawling into bed with us -- pretty much every night. He's about to turn 4 now, and he STILL shows up in our bed from time to time.

I'm not a fan of letting babies cry it out. It feels cruel to me. I believe that little children cry because they need something, even if what they need is to be held. But, eventually, they will sleep alone. Hell, eventually they won't want you to touch them in any way. I do remember the agonizing sleeplessness and the feeling that I had no privacy whatsoever, and I'm glad that my husband and I get our bed mostly to ourselves again now, but sometimes I do miss the feeling of a sleeping baby on my chest. Try to enjoy the good parts of having them tiny -- it really does go by so fast.

Wow, that was long. Sorry for the highjacking.

I had another thought (memory). While they are too young to cry it out now, they probably don't need to lay down and fall peacefully asleep.

Perhaps try putting them down, even if they fuss for a couple of minutes. I don't mean all out screaching bloody murder but give them the chance to fall asleep.

With my first, I remember putting her down eventually when I HAD to, after holding her and wishing her to sleep for hours, maybe to empty the dryer (or my bladder!) and find her asleep by the time I was able to get back to her.

I guess you may already be doing this while tending to the other but in case you were trying to be supermom and take care of everyone at once, it may be worth your while to slow down.

The first few weeks we did whatever trick worked to survive with twins. Duracell battery shares went up those months because of our use of vibrating chairs and swings. At 8 weeks my one son slept through the night. I couldn't sleep because I didn't trust that it could be that easy. My other son...after six months of napping and snacking resulted in a desperate trip to a pediatrician, was put "on track" as it were. We followed Weisenblum's book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" and let the poor dear CIO, Since then he is a champion sleeper. At six months, they can go eight hours without waking up to eat, it just depends on if you are becoming part of their sleep/settling routine. At the age your two cherubs are, I think its too young to really do anything drastic. What we were told to do was as soon as we were "up for the day", expose them to bright light to reset their internal sleep clocks. Night time was for quiet voices, dark rooms and no playing. I also pre-warmed the crib with a hot water bottle. I can only recommend that you try what feels right for you. My boys shared a crib until about 4 mos (when one started kicking the other until he woke), then they were in the same room until 6mos. That's when we realized that despite my feelings that twins should be together...they weren't getting quality sleep in the same room. I'm not sure what went on at night when they shared, but apart at 10 mos they go for two 2 hr naps and sleep 6pm to 6am. One is a lighter sleeping than the other and that just comes down to personalities. I don't know if any of this helped - good luck!

I second (or third or whatever) the motion that you try letting them sleep together. Barring that I also am of the category of mother to do whatever it takes to get sleep. If that means sleeping with them (for a little while or long time depends on your preferences) or them sleeping elsewhere, you have to do what is best for your situation. Also, it is not possible to spoil them this early and besides loving them really isn't spoiling them. :) The BIGGEST tip given me to help my children adjust to day/night schedules was to always, always, always leave the light on during the day and never (or as much as possible) leave the light off at night, use a television or nightlight for light at night if necessary. It took about 5 to 7 days but they finally got dark was sleep and light was sometimes sleep. Good luck!

Hopefully this is not a repeat of what has already been said...

In Spain there is a well-known method to teach babies "good sleeping habits". When the parents thinks the baby is old enough (1 day to 6 months), the idea is that the baby should be laid in their bed before it is fully asleep, so it gets used to falling asleep in their bassinet/bed. Sure, they will cry... the parents then hold/kiss/talk/reassure them and leave them again in their bassinet/bed. The time interval from hold to hold increases slowly during the night and from day to day (1 min to 15 min), so the baby gets used to the routine.

(Our daughter sleeped in her bassinet since the first day, but we had an ace: breastfeeding left her very paceful and she didn't fuss at the bassinet. And it was only one, of course: half the trouble )

I remember those days all too well. Here is what we did with our twins. I tried co-sleeping. I hated it. I have severe joint pain, and couldn't physically handle laying in one position all night. Unfortunately, I let this drag on for over 10 months.

I agree that this age is too young to CIO. That shouldn't start until about 6 months adjusted age (for preeemies). However, here are my thoughts for what worked.

Swaddle, and let them sleep together. Also, lay them down slightly awake but drowsy. Start a bedtime routine now. I played music (certain cd, and only played it for times they should sleep)patted them on the back until falling asleep.

Whimpering is ok, all out crying isn't during the laying down stage. Oh, I think my twins slept together (their preference based off behavior) until about 3 months adjusted age.

I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about, so that being said...
- the swaddling advice sounds good!
- can you transfer them to the bassinets once they are asleep? I have heard that newborns are pretty sound sleepers.
- can they be placed in the same bass' or crib? Maybe since they were in the womb together, they would just feel better being together.
- probably in the grand scheme of things, the sooner they can sleep by themselves, the better, but if you do it for a few more months or so to preserve everyone's sanity, I think that's even better in the grand scheme of things! :)
Good luck!

I bought a book called "Babywise." It has definate strategies for feeding, sleeping, and waketimes that help get babies sleeping through the night. You start the strategy as early as 2 weeks. They say 80-90% of babies are sleeping through the night by 7-9 weeks. I started it at week 4 with my baby and she's now 7 weeks old. So far we've had 2 nights with 7 hours straight of sleep.

There's a chapter on multiples too, so you may want to check it out. I have problems getting my baby to sleep in her crib during the day, but for some reason at night, she takes to it well. I still bring her to my bad sometimes for naps or when she wakes up only an hour after I put her back to bed in the middle of the night. It's a habit I'm trying to break, but sometimes my sleep is just more important than breaking a habit.

I agree with others who said it's way too early to let them cry it out. I also have sleep problems with my 4 mo. old son. The one thing that has been a help is the book The Baby Whisperer. I think her suggestions are reasonable and they're a happy medium between the "cry it out" method and the attachment parenting method (which I love in theory but had a hard time making it work for me personally).

I didn't have too much trouble with my older two kids (now teenagers), but have talked with a few newer moms now that I am pregnant with twins. They suggest a book called On Becoming Baby Wise by Gary Ezzo for sleep assistance for the new baby... you may look it up.

I am a cold hearted bitch -- everyone knows that. However, with that in mind, I think they are too young cio. And you'd never survive that I can tell. But they should not have to sleep on top of you for goodness sake. That is too much -- it means you can barely close your eyes. And you will get sick. I liked that idea of putting them together -- I don't know who wrote it --like 84 comments ago, and kate likes to suck adam's head so it could work. I do think you should just do something, swaddle, tuck, SOMETHING -- drink! to get them off YOU.
But - I, as i have pointed out, am cold.

My pediatrician and most of the books I've read say not to do CIO and other types of sleep training before 4 months of age. At your stage, we let our daughter fall asleep in our arms and then put her down in her cradle once she fell asleep. Most of the time that worked. She primarily slept in her cradle at night as a newborn, though during the day I let her sleep on me a lot. Once we hit about two months, I started working on getting her to nap in her cradle more during the day. It's wonderful to have free hands again. There were nights when she didn't want to go to sleep in her cradle, and we pulled her into bed on those nights. Sometimes you've got to do whatever it takes so you'll all get some sleep. I've repeatedly read that you can't spoil a baby under 4 months of age.

At 3 months, my daughter still can't sleep well unswaddled, so I highly recommend that. I've also heard that twins are more comfortable sleeping in the same bed since they're used to having the other one nearby. I know my sister sleeps her newborn twins side-by-side in their crib. I also like the sleep book, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child." It was recommended to me by several medical professionals and I've found it helpful.

It does get much easier. My 3-month-old used to only want to fall asleep on us, and now she's much more independent and doesn't need that very often. Believe it or not, sometimes we already miss those days when she slept on our chests all the time. Good luck!!

My son is almost 3.

I firmly belive that you cannot possible create an unbreakable habit in the first three months of life. You can't. If you can't get your kids out of your bed at 3 months or 6 months or 2 years or 5 years, it's because you're not willing to make a plan and stick to it. Period. It's not because you brought them into bed with you in the first place.

Babies need to sleep. Tertia needs to sleep. Marko needs to sleep. Let them sleep in your bed until 12 weeks, then reassess.

Sleep: By Any Means Necessary.

Don't make anything harder for yourself by believing all the "bad habit" hype.

You're doing a great job.

Oh, and just as a data point, my son slept in our bed with us until he was 10 or 11 months. We moved him to a crib in his own room, then (it took about 3 days for the full transition, and maybe 4-5 minutes total of crying in that time). When he was around 2 one of us would "go to sleep with him" which meant lying down next to his bed while he fell asleep. Now he goes to bed easily and happily by himself when we kiss him goodnight and turn off the light.

With two kids, two years apart, we persevered for about 6 years with the bassinette/own bed thing - during the worst stages we were getting up 10 times a night to soothe or return kids to bed, often giving in and having them in bed with us anyway. We only had the occassional full-night's sleep during those years.

My kids are now approaching teenagehood and if I could do it all over again I'd dump my rigid and unrealistic notions of making kids sleep in their own beds at such a young age, when they had a yearning for human contact, and let them curl up in bed with us. They are only little for such a short time. They feel safe, secure and loved tucked in bed with mum and dad.

We caused ourselves a lot of stress and terrible sleep depravation and I don't feel we did the kids any favours by forcing the issue either. In hindsight I regret not listening to my natural instinct to be close to my babies.

Good luck with this one Tertia, it's a tough call. All I can suggest is asking yourself how you feel about separating yourself from your babies. If you can do that reasonably comfortably then you have a chance of making the own bed thing work -providing you can get the babies to co-operate. If your instincts - or practicalities - are screaming otherwise then it might be easier to let the babies sleep with you (even if it's only on the tough nights - I know, all of them at the momement!) and resolve to not feel guilty about it.

Eventually they develop a natural inclination for their own space - I promise.

Yes, once again, it's a book. Sorry.

There are so many middle grounds between babies sleeping on you all night, and them lying alone in the dark, terrified and screaming for you with no response. In trying to decide whether we would do CIO, I finally realized that short-term, it might force our children to sleep alone and not bother us with their needs, which often sounded pretty good in the early months. But in the long-term, it teaches them that we do not respond even when they cry out for us, even when they need us. Not at all something I want to teach my precious children. Diaper changes, food, and physical health are not the only things our babies need, as you well know.

And what is "spoiling," exactly? I'd love an essay from you on that subject. *hint, hint* When I think of spoiled kids, they are whiny and needy because their emotional needs have been ignored. Well-loved kids with enough attention and respect just don't seem spoiled, but that's my opinion. What's your impression of "spoiled?"

We have found that co-sleeping brings us all the most and best sleep. Our 2-yr-old is fully capable of sleeping on her own and has been since she was about three months old, but we still co-sleep because we like it. I put Meg to sleep (I lie down with her), and then I leave when she's asleep, so she is used to that and goes to sleep very easily. We join her in the bed at our bed time. Waking to tend to her is easy because she's near us, and she is not afraid of the dark, so we rarely have panic stations. You can get an attachment to side-car a crib to the adult bed if you want your own space.

I highly recommend Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solution, too, Tertia. She is wonderfully practical and gives many different solutions to try, along with a method of evaluating and tweaking whatever method you choose.

As an aside, Gary Ezzo's methods (Babywise) have been denounced by the already quite conservative American Association of Pediatrics as contributing to failure to thrive, and possibly even to infant death. Please research well what he is about before instituting any of his methods. Google his name and you'll find a lot of useful BTDT information.

And the most important point, which I've left to last (I promise I'll stop now) is that there is a very clear list of SAFETY REQUIREMENTS for co-sleeping (not hard to follow, but VERY important). If you need it, please email me.

Good luck, Tertia!

Hi Tertia,

My friends with babies all swear by the tips from Dr. Harvey Karp (Happiest Baby on the Block) who recommends a swaddle, side/stomach position, shushing, swinging and sucking system. He has a book and DVD that demonstrate the techniques. In the DVD he demonstrates these five Ss with dramatic results in the NICU and in the regular nursery. It's amazing to watch screaming infants instantly quiet and drift off.

Also, the No Cry Sleep Solution had my friends' babies sleeping through the night at a couple of months old. I wouldn't dream of new-momhood without these solutions, tried and tested by my closest friends.

The Happiest Baby system sounds a lot like what other posters are recommending for your twins: swaddling them, letting them sleep in the same basinette, etc.

Best,
Carol

Hi,

First time commenter. First of all congratulations on your beautiful babies! My now six month old was the same way he would not sleep in his bassinet or anywhere except my arms, what I ended up doing was he slept in our bed in the boppy pillow this way he felt like he was being held. He slept in our bed until two months at which time we made the switch to him sleeping in his crib. Hats off to doing such a great job with twins I can't imagine what it would be like with two newborns.

Good Luck!

My little one still sleeps with us and he's almost 8 months old. I haven't had a full night sleep in over 10 months (who's counting?!? ME!)Good luck, it's one of those things that you never know how it's going to turn out until you do it. I know, that's not much help... sorry!

I cannot say enough bad things about "Babywise" and Gary Ezzo. Even his own publishers ditched him and he had to find new ones.

His methods have been responsible for numerous cases of failure to thrive in infants.

As previously stated, even the American Academy of Pediatrics won't vouch for him.

My own doc, who I trust and have been using for my kids for 16 years says the man is a quack. He has seen more babies in his practice who aren't gaining, who have developmental issues whose parents use Ezzo's methods.

I slept with the twins on a recliner for quite awhile after they were born. Now they cosleep with Dh and I.

I've coslept with previous children and they all moved to their own beds without a problem when the time came.

My marriage did not suffer. Nor did our sex life. You can have fun in many places aside from your bed. ;) Talk about spicing things up! LOL

Your babies are far too young for CIO. Among those who reccomend it they state a 6 mo minimum age.

I've never done CIO. Crying babies set my teeth on adge. I literally cannot tolerate it. Maybe from all those years listening to my baby sisters screaming throughout the night. EEK

Follow your heart, do what feels right for you and your family.

I haven't read the other comments, but just wanted to say that most "experts" agree that you cannot spoil a child less than six months old and that you should not let children younger than 6 months cry it out.

That being said, I am still trying to get my 13 month old to sleep in his own bed all of the night. My 3 year old daughter CIO at 15 onths and has slept full nights since.

I think that up to a year if they wake up in the night it is because they need you, whether it is for food, diaper or, yes, to cuddle.

I'm having a baby in five months and 3 days (or so) I'm so scared. PLEASE TELL ME THE ANSWER when you get it.

I just read in a mag that babies s/b held and nursed as much as they want for 6 weeks and then urged to a schedule. Can anyone define urged??

I did the same as you and had them in my bed for the first 2 months. I would put them both in the bassinette sometimes too. I remember always waking up in a panic thinking I was still feeding a baby and wondering where it went. Oh the days!
Around 2 months I moved them into their cribs in their room as they were both such noisy sleepers I was having trouble sleeping with them in the room.

Don't worry about spoiling them, do what you need to do at this point to get as much rest as possible!

Good luck!

We didn't let our kids sleep in our bed for the same reason you talk about not wanting to let your children. We absolutely did not want to get that little habit started. We knew that once it started, it would be a hard habit to break, not just for the baby, but for us too because we would get used to the convenience. Now our kids are 12, 8 and almost 6. I am so very glad that we never allowed them to sleep in our bed. Our best friends have a 3 year old little girl and an 18 month old little boy and they all pile into the parent's king size bed. And the parents are miserable. They are trying so hard to get Rachel into her own bed with no such luck.

With that all said, we didn't have twins. Those first few weeks with a new baby suck complete ass. I remember the misery well. It felt like it would never end and I would dread night time because I knew I wouldn't get to sleep like I wanted to. I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if we had had twins. I cannot fathom. So I have no idea what I would do in that situation. Also we were very lucky with all three of our boys because they all slept so well. Our last two slept through the night at around 1 month old and the oldest got up twice a night only for about the first year. If we had had twins who were so tiny and didn't sleep so wonderfully, I cant say that we wouldnt have let them sleep in our bed. I think if I were in your situation, I would do whatever it took to get some sleep and worry about the reprecussions later. I hope that things get a lot easier for you very soon!

Hi Tertia,

I have a daughter who plain refused to sleep on her own. I would put her down and she would wake up (sound familiar?). When she was about 5 months old, I began to be able to put her down after she fell asleep and leave. Until then, she would only nap on my lap on a pillow. The thing is - she grew out of it eventually. Eventually they will be too big to sleep on you and they will get off of you. We started co-sleeping for sanity purposes and my DH slept in another room for awhile too. Now that she is almost 2, we kind of have a free style sleeping thing, whatever is working on a given night is what works. That being said, it sounds as if you are clear that you don't want to co-sleep indifinitely so you should try to do what you can to get them into their beds for naps at first. I stink at this, but my friends that are successful at the sleep thing have all CIO at 8 months or later. We didn't do it til much much later and even then it's hit and miss cause you have to keep letting them cry and I am a big old softy and can't handle the crying. Do what works to get any sleep you can for now. You can't spoil a newborn they are all about the needs right now and it sounds like they need to be near you. I KNOW it's hard and it feels like forever when you are in this beginning part, but it will get better sometime.
I would experiment with different congifgurations and maybe you will hit on something they can tolerate other then you. And if not, then you will get through this part and they will get off you eventually.


Ok, I'm the first to admit that my DD was/is naturally on the mellow side. Although, I remember she went thru a stage at around 5w or so where she cried a fair bit. Having babysat a whole passel of nieces/nephews, I guess you could say I'm a bit on the "tough" side. Even so, I didn't really do CIO in those early days. I did, however, try not to get into the habit of picking her up as soon as she cried. Yes, there were many a time I ate dinner while holding her, but generally I would pick her up at random moments, so I was always there for her, but not really so it seemed like I was responding to her cries. Sometimes, when I knew she was fed, clean, etc, I'd let her cry for a few mins. Actually, it seems like forever and your heart is breaking, but you'll see by the clock that it was only a few mins.
She slept in her bassinet next to our bed in our room until 5m when she started moving around too much, and she moved to the crib in her room. She slept thru the night at about 3m.
I have to say, CIO does work. I wasn't a stickler for following the exact rules - I think you have to adjust according to your baby's individual needs (my own comfort zone: 20 mins max of cying, which she did once) - but it worked like a charm for me. When she was 1 yrs old, we went for a 1 week vacation and she wanted to sleep in our bed (my sister babysat and had her in her bed) - one night of CIO and she was back in her own crib, content as can be. From experience, I've found that once they sleep in your bed, they will want to do it all the time. (Even now at 20m, my DD sleeps in our bed for naps sometimes, as a "treat" - it's so nice to snuggle with her!
Oh yeah - a bit of white noise helps too. Soft music, maybe the murmur of the TV. When she started sleeping her own room, I'd even walk in and out softly so she got used to me pottering around.

Anyway, the sleep issue is a big one. And there will always be days/nights when they need to be with you, for whatever reason. You'll know better than anyone what's right for your own babies.
Good luck!

Just wanted to say, totally agree with those who commented about putting them down while awake, rather than after they fall asleep. It takes a bit of time to learn hown to read the signals, tho.

Wish I could help. I always knew that my daughter was an easy baby, but I never realized HOW easy until reading all these comments.

I did not have twins, nor was my daughter a preemie, so I just don't know what to tell you.

I brought my daughter home from the hospital and put her in her crib to sleep. She never shared our room -- ever. We had been advised to have her sleep during the day in a bassinet in the living room and sleep at night in her bed -- so she could sort out day from night.

Like I said, I was lucky. I would feed her until she was almost asleep and put her down in her own bed in her own room.

I am in the minority here I know -- I am not an advocate of co-sleeping at all!

Oh well -- best to you.

Stay awaaaaaaaaaaay from Gary Ezzo. I am not an AP purist and have no particular problem with Ferber or Weissbluth or most of the other authors who suggest letting babies cry in order to learn how to get back to sleep on their own -- but I sincerely believe that Gary Ezzo is an evil man who hates babies and wants them to suffer. You do not want his books.

I had another thought, incidentally, having been reminded that it is HOT where you live, not cold like it is here. Does your house have air conditioning? If it does, crank it up. Hot babies do not sleep well. (This is the advice my mother gave me last summer when my then-baby started sleeping even less well.)

I'm not a big co-sleeping fan either, but realize that if you want them sleeping in their own beds, you will hear more crying. It is okay for babies to cry. Not for hours on end or anything, but once they are fed, burped, clean and dry, there isn't much more you can do for them.

You could try putting them in their carseats and rocking them to sleep (we used our futon mattress on the floor for this to prevent accidents). My husband got so good at this he could do it with one foot while snoring away. This way they're near you but not ON you, which is sorta what you probably want to avoid. They're also wrapped up and safe, which is the other thing you want to be sure of.

It does settle down after awhile, but I haven't talked to many people that got anything like a routine going until they'd been at this at least 8 weeks.

I'm not a huge Ferber fan either, but try setting a time limit for yourself... 5 mintues, 10 minutes, whatever you are comfortable with, and once you've done all that you can, let them cry that long. Your sanity will thank you for it.

My little guy slept in my bed (sometimes in bassinet) for the first 3 months. I then put him in his crib one night and you know what? He slept better that night than he ever did. I was so worried that I was making a big mistake by letting him sleep in our bed, but apparently, he coped well with the change.
In my opinion, they are too young to cry it out. From what I have read, you should wait to do that until they are about 4 months or so if they are still not sleeping. Hopefully you won't have to do that, but I know people who have and it has worked for them.

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